# what is beyond the known universe?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by utopian knight, Oct 6, 2006.

1. ### utopian knightRegistered Senior Member

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Can anyone shed some light on what is beyond the universe we know that the universe is expanding but surely there must be 'something', outside the universe or is it never ending.

3. ### SaunaBannedBanned

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If you know as much as that you are telling me, not asking.

5. ### phlogisticianBannedBanned

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What is beyond the known Universe? Simple. Unknown stuff.

7. ### swivelSci-Fi AuthorValued Senior Member

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It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. The universe can be finite, without anything existing "outside" of it.

According to "closed universe" models, if you travel in any direction in the universe, in a perfectly straight line, you will end up right back where you started. And it doesn't matter what direction you set off in, you will always come back to where you started (of course, if you do this slowly, the universe will look differently when you get back due to expansion).

Imagine this... Imagine you had a hypothetical telescope with amazing light-gathering properties, and light travelled with infinite speed (so images moved through the universe instantaneously). If nothing got in the way of the light (and gravitational influences didn't divert the image), then anywhere you pointed the telescope in a closed universe would reveal the back of your own head.

Here's a way to make this make sense: We live on a sphere that exists in three dimensions. Let's pretend that we are 2-D creatures (a-la Flatland), and that we are unaware of a third dimension. We hear that the Earth is neverending, but that nothing exists outside of it. To prove this, we set off in a random direction. Where do we end up? Back where we started. We go in a different direction and also end up where we started. That is because we are traveling in a loop through a dimension we cannot perceive.

If the universe is 4-dimensional (5 with time, for purists), then that means that the universe can be finite AND all-inclusive. Which means that it is NOT neverending, but that it doesn't make sense to wonder what is "beyond" it. The answer would be - NOTHING! And not even nothing in the sense of an empty vacuum, I mean that such a place of "non universe" doesn't even exist.

To take expansion into account, now just imagine that we are living on a spherical balloon that is being blown up. All objects on the surface of the balloon are getting further away, but the structure and shape of the balloon is the same.

This conundrum is similar to the ability of Mandlebrot curves to have both finite volume and infinte perimeter.

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I'm learning to say "I don't know" myself.

9. ### jumpercable6EQUJ5 'WOW'Registered Senior Member

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Probably things we can't understand and things we'll never see.

10. ### spidergoatValued Senior Member

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The entire universe isn't known, so beyond the known universe is more universe. Outside of the universe is nothing.

11. ### NickelodeonBannedBanned

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If we can only see things 15 billion light years away, what would happen if we were transported instantly to the edge of that maximum radius? Would we see new things?

12. ### tablariddimforexU2Valued Senior Member

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Beyond the 'known', there is only the 'unknown'.

13. ### VegaBannedBanned

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probably a light switch!

14. ### Fraggle RockerStaff Member

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The essence of the Big Bang model is that all of the matter and energy in the universe was created in that moment and has been moving steadily away from the point of origin. The current extent of the distribution of energy is a sphere defined by the maximum distance attainable by something moving at the speed of light away from the point of origin since that moment. Which I suppose is then a radius of about twelve billion light years. (Matter moves too slowly to have any impact on the calculation.)

To say that there is any "universe" at all outside of this sphere is more of a semantic or philosophical question than a scientific one. We can define the "universe" as an infinity of "empty space" stretching out in all directions, with this little expanding sphere of matter and energy inside it. But the physicists here will jump in with some challenging questions about how you actually define and measure that "empty space" that cannot be observed and is characterized by the ultimate in entropy.

If the Big Bang is the correct model--or any of the "expanding universe" models--then I don't think there's any good reason to not define the "universe" as the expanding volume of space that has matter and energy in it. If we do this, then the "known universe" is the same as the "universe," and the phrase "beyond the universe" is self-contradictory because the universe is finite.

Humans resist limits so our minds rebel against the idea that "there's nothing else out there." That doesn't make it true.

15. ### Mosheh ThezionRegistered Senior Member

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Heaven, and any other universes.... are outside our universe.
Heaven, being actually somewhere in the GOD PLANE... which is a general term describing the plane of existance ourside and beyond our universe...

that enviorment.. medium... is where GOD would be... and so that enviorment would be GODS enviorment... the GOD PLANE...

HEAVEN... is either the plane itself.... or is a place located in that plane.

Alot of people like to say that outside this universe there is nothing....

but by saying it... they have made that place into a something.. called the nothing.

and since 'nothing' is not limited by anything... ever at all...

'nothing' can literally... be anything.
SO... the whole idea that outside is nothing, is just stupid.

-MT

16. ### yodajones2000Registered Member

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I know what is out there , The Multiverse!

17. ### jumpercable6EQUJ5 'WOW'Registered Senior Member

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Guessing what is beyond the universe is about all we can do. No way to confirm. It's to distant to worry about and to big to imagine.

18. ### thedevilsrejectRegistered Senior AbuserRegistered Senior Member

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no-one can know for sure, all we can see is a big wall of radiation

19. ### Walter L. WagnerCosmic Truth SeekerValued Senior Member

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Under the "Big Bang" theory, that "big wall of radiation" is a spherical shell of hot hydrogen gas, moving rapdily away from us (at about 0.999999c) with our viewpoint on Earth being at the center of that sphere. The radiation which it emits is red-shifted so that we do not detect it in the visible wave-lengths, but rather as microwave wavelengths. It is functionally equivalent to a 'black-body' radiation emitted by cold stationary hydrogen gas at about 2.7 degrees K.

The easy way to visualize it is to imagine that the entire universe, except for our Milky Way and local-cluster galaxies, began moving away from us some 13 billions years ago as a result of an immense (infinite) explosion, after having existed in our region at that time, but as a hot primoridal soup of infinite pure energy.

A smaller finite portion of that energy was blown away from us, expanded and cooled, formed into particles and then into hydrogen gas (actually, H-1 and H-2 and some He) in a spherical shell surrounding our viewpoint, and eventually clumped into galaxies, all moving away from us at relatively small velocities, such that they have relatively small recessional red shifts. Because of light's finite speed, we see that matter as it was when the light left, not as those galaxies exist now.

A larger finite portion of that energy was blown away from us, expanded and cooled, formed into hydrogen gas in a larger spherical shell surrounding our viewpoint, and eventually formed into galaxies that are moving away from us at relatively larger velocities such that they have larger recessional red shifts. Likewise, because of light's finite speed, we see that matter as it was when the light left, not as those galaxies exist now.

A still larger portion of that energy was blown away from us at nearly 0.999999c, cooled and expanded and formed into hydrogen gas, but due to the finite speed of light, we see that matter as it was then (some 13 billion years ago), not as it actually is now. That matter is about 13 billion light years away, and as it was then, it was hot hydrogen gas in a spherical shell surrounding our viewpoint. We see it as it was then (hot hydrogen gas) and not as it has since become in the intervening 13 billion years. Presumptively it too has formed into galaxies which, in the far distant future, will become visible from Earth. We see that hot hydrogen gas as the highly red-shifted cosmic background radiation emanating from a nearly spherical shell.

The recent Nobel Prize in physics was awarded to the physicists of the COBE satellite that measured slight irregularities in an otherwise nearly uniform emission from that spherical shell of hot hydrogen gas. Presumptively those irregularities have given rise to galaxy clusters similar to the galaxy cluster of the Milky Way, though all we can detect now is a slight dimpling of the otherwise uniform microwave background.

Beyond that "wall" of hot hydrogen gas is believed to be even hotter matter, of still greater amount, that will become visible in the far distant future as the then highly red-shifted microwave background, replacing the matter we currently see, which would by then have cooled and become relatively transparent.

As one sums up each greater spherical shell of matter that surrounds our Milky Way viewpoint, the sum becomes huge; as one sums up increasingly greater spherical shells of hotter energy beyond that spherical shell at 13 billion light-years distant, the sum approaches infinity, so it can be said that the Universe stretches to infinity in all directions, only we just can't see it due to the finite speed of light. Please note that the speed of light in a vacuum is c; the speed of light through a high density energy medium such as exists beyond that spherical shell of hot hydrogen gas (sometimes called a brehmstrahlung opacity wall) is well below c, which also precludes it from being visible until it too cools and forms into expanding and cooling hydrogen gas, whereupon we will be able to detect it as the newest cosmic microwave background.

The LHC under construction in Switzerland is designed to determine the properties of such hot 'plasma' by forming a tiny piece of very hot matter, a 'quark-gluon' soup.

20. ### rich68Registered Senior Member

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whats beyond the universe?...is McDonalds...it has a drive through which is a real touch...considering the free space!

21. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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Grape Jello ....lots and lots of Grape Jello.

Baron Max

22. ### RomanBannedBanned

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The unknown universe.

23. ### imaplanck.BannedBanned

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Wow I was going to say the exact same sentence.