Warning for asking a question via PM

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by adoucette, May 2, 2012.

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  1. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Is getting a warning for a PM to a moderator for asking them a question reasonable?

    I've been having an ongoing discussion via PM with a Moderator.
    The Moderator never asked me to cease PMing them, and indeed responded to each of my PMs.

    This is an edited version of the last PM (you aren't supposed to reveal what is said in PMs so I've narrowed this down so the subject and the moderator aren't obvious, but I've included my full reply, the one that got me a warning, so you can see that it wasn't inapproriate)

    To which I received this:

    Really?

    You can get a warning for mearly discussing something with a Moderator via a PM now?

    Is this a valid interpretation of the Posting rules?
     
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  3. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    It depends if this is the whole story, which we the normal posters here have no way to know. That is exactly why you are not supposed to post stuff like this here.
     
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  5. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by the whole story, but to fill in the blanks:

    A) I was not asked by the Mod to not PM them on this issue.

    B) I was in fact responding to a PM the mod sent me.

    C) I have posted my full reply to the mod in this note so you can see that I didn't write anything that violated any forum rules, certainly nothing that should have resulted in a warning.

    The specific warning was for "Trolling / Meaningless Post Content ", which is clearly not the case.

    D) What recourse do I have but to take up this issue here?

    Indeed, this started because I was warned by the same moderator that I was going to start getting official warnings and this specific issue was brought up as an example of why that was so. So I took this issue off line via PM to try to resolve the issue and POOF, a warning.

    I sincerely believe that the moderator is wrong on the issue, and I've presented pages and pages of proof that is the case and yet the moderator won't admit it, but rather than simply admit the error, it appears that the Moderator is trying to make me stop bringing up the issue by using the Warning system.

    I don't think that is the purpose of the warning system, to give warnings to people you simply disagree with to shut them up.

    But that is in essence what has happening here.

    I can't post online about it, and I can't discuss it via PM.
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    By calling said moderator "stupid", ignorant and a few other choice insulting terms before said moderator issued you with the warning?

    You see Arthur, you might be taken more seriously if you presented it in full instead of snippets which support your claims. You could, for example, have stated how the moderator in question had warned you about your behaviour and that it would not be tolerated any longer (this is after you called said moderator stupid, implied they were ignorant and dishonest) when you then PM'ed the mod with this:

    So why is it MOD, that if I am the one who is distorting the issue that NO ONE agrees with YOUR version?

    NO ONE.

    Not even Joe?


    In other words, you were asked to stop and you kept on going, even after being warned. And the PM you received with the warning was not just what you posted above, was it?

    There are two sides to every story Arthur and this case is no different. Maybe you should have been a bit more honest in how you presented it.
     
  8. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    No Bells, the Mod did not ask me to stop PMing them.

    If they had, I would have.

    And the rules say you can't post PMs, so I didn't post all of them, only enough to show my whole response in the post that got the warning, and by the way there is nothing wrong about saying someone is IGNORANT about an issue Bells.

    Being Ignorant is a state of knowledge.

    You are clearly ignorant about a lot of what happens in the US, as I am Ignorant about a lot of what happens in Australia.

    See?

    The question though is very simple, is getting a warning for the post you see above, in a PM responding to a PM sent to me by the Mod justified and if so, what the hell for?
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    You were clearly asked to stop with the behaviour via PM by the mod. Your continued persistence via PM to that same mod goes against their request that you stop. You kept on going and called the mod stupid and a few other choice terms whereupon you were given a warning.

    Now you can play this in any direction you want. But we know the reality and frankly, how you are portraying this here is not exactly correct, is it? The crux of the matter is that you were asked to stop your behaviour and you did not and kept PM'ing the moderator with quite insulting messages. That is what it came down to.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Why am I part of this conversation? What exactly am I supposed to disagree with? And how is that germane to anything under the Sun?

    Originally Posted by adoucette
    So why is it MOD, that if I am the one who is distorting the issue that NO ONE agrees with YOUR version?

    NO ONE.

    Not even Joe?
     
  11. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    I was discussing the issue with the MOD via PMs.

    As to the issue of calling the Mod Stupid, that was in fact after he had called me both Stupid, Sinister and Dishonest in a previous PM, so clearly that was an ok level of discourse with this Mod.

    So Bells, I was not posting anything in the open forums, and so the question is very simple, if one is responding to a PM from a MOD on the subject and not using foul language, is it appropriate to get a warning for just doing so?

    Secondly, what bad BEHAVIOR do you claim I was exhibiting that demanded a warning?

    Asserting that I was right?

    Is that against some forum RULE, particularly when I have supported that contention with page after page after page of supporting data?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  12. keith1 Guest

    I've got my hot buttered kernels up, but am without privy when the debate enters the PM's. Looks as if they have Arthur quarried good in the sticky wickets this time. Arthur is always up for a good challenge, however, and I expect some dicey moments yet in play.
    Good evening all, and cheers.
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    That is something you will need to ask Arthur about.

    Why are you misrepresenting what he actually said and how he said it?

    From your own words in this thread Arthur:

    Indeed, this started because I was warned by the same moderator that I was going to start getting official warnings and this specific issue was brought up as an example of why that was so. So I took this issue off line via PM to try to resolve the issue and POOF, a warning.


    In other words, you were warned to stop or you would start to get official warnings. What you then did was to take the argument to PM's with the moderator who again advised you to stop acting as you were and you kept going. In fact, you were firing responses back at the moderator in question within minutes. You were not discussing his warning to you about your getting warnings about your behaviour. You simply decided to try and keep fighting with him via PM because he didn't agree with you on your stance on the thread in question and his repeated warnings to you seem to not make a dent in your need to 'win on the internet'. And so, you were issued with a warning.

    You tell me. When someone asks you to stop doing something, and you keep doing it by taking it to PM's, what do you think that is?

    Is that what you call it?

    Harassing people via PM's to keep pounding that issue home even after they asked you to stop acting as you were? Really, it's not that hard.

    I mean, look at you, you even dragged others into your argument by demeaning them in your PM's. Did you ask Joe if he minded you talking about him behind his back and then publishing the PM where you did in the open?
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It depends on the context of the PM, and often what has preceded it.

    Mostly, moderators are quite tolerant of questions, and even complaints. For example, I get lots of PMs from disgruntled people demanding that I justify the warning or ban I've given them recently. In some cases, those are framed as questions in such a way as to reassert the matter that originally attracted the warning.

    I don't think I have ever given anybody a warning or ban concerning a PM sent to me, but I have banned people when a previous warning has proven ineffectual in producing a change in behaviour, however that is manifested.

    Every moderator has a limit to his or her tolerance. It looks like you've found a limit for the particular moderator in question here.

    My advice is to stop pushing, or you'll mostly likely find yourself being pushed back.
     
  15. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    I've found that when a Moderator asserts something which is patently false, and even when page after page, graph after graph and link after link is presented showing that the assertion is false, the Moderators opinion that they are correct TRUMPS the data and more importantly when you challenge a moderator on this patently false information you will eventually be labeled as a Troll and Dishonest by that moderator and then if you persist in asserting the factual basis, you will be given official warnings, even if you take your disagreement off-line to the PM system.

    A classic "no-win" scenario.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  16. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    why is it so important that he admit you are right?

    this seems to be the issue here..not the content..but validation..
    why is his opinion of your issue so important to you?

    is your world gonna end if he doesn't admit you are right?
     
  17. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Well to start with, it's not an issue, it is a simple statement of fact.

    A fact which is and has been proven over and over and over.


    Let me ask you this hypothetical question.

    If a mod posted that the level of atmospheric CO2 wasn't any higher today than it was in 1950 would you challenge it?

    Now if you did, and a mod told you you were wrong, could you not produce page after page of data and links to reliable sources to prove that it was higher?

    And even if after you did that, the mod insisted that you were wrong, and then posted that you were using your own definition of CO2 to assert you were right about the level of CO2, would you not try to set the record straight?

    Would you not, on a science site, be upset that this type of falsehood was allowed to stand, unchallenged?

    That's the same type issue that I'm dealing with here.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    You were asked to stop or be given a warning. Instead you decided to take it to PM and keep trying to push your opinion and 'win'. You were again asked to stop and you did not. So you were given a warning.

    As James pointed out, everyone has their limits and you refused to acknowledge his request that you stop and instead felt the need to keep pushing because you can't cope if someone disagrees with you. You can't help yourself. In the process you dragged Joe through this by linking your comment about him to this mod, without, I am guessing, discussing it with Joe first as to whether he wanted to be dragged into it (going by his surprise, you failed to do that as well). You also tried to say that you PM'ed the moderator once and got a warning. This is not the case, you kept pushing and pushing over several PM's until you got the warning and all this after you were told to stop originally.

    Maybe you should just learn to respect people's wishes? I would suggest you take James' advice.
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Arthur:

    Some mods don't like to be wrong. And, at a push, they can do what they like. Details in such a circumstance become unimportant; the tenet of honesty also then becomes relative.
     
  20. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Bells, I was replying to a PM that the mod had sent me.

    That PM again asserted that I was "insisting that your distortion of the issue is the only acceptable one"

    I replied with a legitimate question to that assertion, that why did the mod claim it was me who was distorting the issue when no one agreed with his version?

    The Mod then simply claimed that I hadn't addressed a point he raised earlier about his claim that I hadn't asked the question properly and gave me the warning.

    At any time the mod in question could have simply said: Don't PM me on this anymore.

    And I wouldn't have.
     
  21. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    Clearly

    Sigh
     
  22. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    For those of you PMing me asking who the Mod is, I won't say.
    This post was about the legitimacy of getting a Warning for simply responding to a PM from a Mod with a question.

    Apparently, James sees no problem with this.

    So the question is settled.

    A Mod can indeed give you a warning for any post they happen to disagree with, in the forums or via PM, even if you are just responding to a PM from them.

    It's clearly their playground and they own the ball and thus they make all the rules.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    From what I understand, you PM'ed said mod after he asked you to stop or face a warning. Not to discuss his warning to you, but because you have a pathological need to be right.

    You have misrepresented those exchanges quite a bit in this thread. You know it and the moderators and admin know it. So you can stop lying now. Your charade ended when you started this thread.

    As James advised you earlier, if you keep pushing and pushing, which you did, someone will push back, which he did. If you don't like it, then it is your own fault. And you are still pushing this. You seem to forget Arthur that the staff do talk to each other and we have everything out in the open. In other words, I exactly what you said, what he said to you in response over and over and over again.

    Your OP stated that you had an "ongoing discussion" via PM with a particular mod about something you just can't let go of - ie. you are demanding he says you are right. He disagrees with you on this point and you can't seem to let it go. You commenced this PM discussion after he asked you to stop or face a warning, because again, heaven forbid someone thinks you're wrong. What you then proceeded to do is to virtually keep at this moderator who again warned you to stop and you again ignored him.

    I have to ask, does the word 'no' mean nothing to you? How about 'stop'? Until you learn to stop misrepresenting what people say and until you start to respect people's boundaries and stop harassing people when they ask you to stop, you will face moderator action. It is that simple. In this case, as James said, you pushed someone to their limit and they responded by issuing you with a warning that has no infraction points.


    Again, misrepresentation.

    You were issued a warning because you failed to heed the request to stop. Instead, you then took it to PM and kept going and going, again ignoring his requests that you stop until he finally issued you with a warning. So stop lying. James even told you, if you keep pushing, sometimes people will push back. Guess what, someone pushed back this time. This pattern of behaviour from you is an ongoing issue, something we are all aware of. Keep this in mind:

    You have been asked repeatedly to stop misrepresenting people, to stop being dishonest and to stop pushing. You have received warnings for this behaviour. So I am asking you one last time. Stop. Stop pushing. Stop trying to win on the internet. Because you will end up losing out.

    Heed this warning from me well because I don't play as nice. Keep going and you will get an infraction point and possibly a short stay away from this place, from me. I don't particularly give a flying toss what issue you feel you have with this moderator you are involved in this fight with, nor do I care which one of you is right. I am warning you now, I will ban you if you persist in misrepresenting your own actions and his (something you have been warned about before) and if you keep pushing. Everyone has their limit Arthur and you are fast approaching ours.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
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