Vapaad v. The Weirding Way

Mace Windu's form 7 lightsabre combat/martial art (evidently he can use Vapaad without a lightsabre) v. the Bene Gesserit "Weirding Way" prana-bindu training martial art.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat#Form_VII:_Juyo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Prana_Bindu_training_and_the_Weirding_Way

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

the weirding way, definately. miles teg would kick any jedi's ass.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Windu would be dead before he knew what happened.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I'm with Roman and Roy on this.

 

Why? Windu could sense which way they were coming before they knew it. And in case you forgot a knife that meets a lightsaber is toast. in hand to hand how do you defeat an enemy who can instantly become stronger than a raging wookie of steroids.Or worse yet lift you in the air and taunt.

 

Well lets say that Mace was fighting an equally powerful sister. Basically alls the sister would have to do is tell him to "Die" using the Voice and well.. He would die. But if we didn't want to go that far she could tell him to "sleep", "lay down", hell "stab yourself with the lightsabre" and it would all be pretty much over for Mace. And all before he could even get a hit on her.

 

Also lets not forget that as far as the Star Wars universe is concerned, from what the books have portrayed (and the books are cannonical), The Force can only affect things which are a part of the force. Everything in the Star Wars galaxy is part of the force and thus is effected and effects the the force. However, we would have to assume that since Dune is set in OUR galaxy (read the prequel books and you'll find all humans originated on Earth). Since we know that the Star Wars universe is in a galaxy far far away, I'd have to conclude that the force was have no effect on anyone from this galaxy and thus have no effect on a sister.

-AntonK

 

RoyLennigan:

Mile's Teg does not use the Weirding Way. Mile's Teg is a super-mentat. Completely different.

Roman:

See above.

OpteronGuy:

Same could be said of Mace. "You want to kill yourself *waves hand*". Considering Voice cannot work on other Bene Gesserit, I do believe, one could consider it analogous to the extreme strong-willed (or specially indisposed) who are immune to Force Domination in the Star Wars galaxy.

AntonK:

This is a counter productive strain of argument. If we assume that the Force just doesn't work on the Bene Gesserit, yet allow the Bene Gesserit to use their Weirding Way techniques (specificallyt hings like The Voice), then we are essentially unbalancing the fight. Considering the Bene Gesserit are human, and the humans of the SW Galaxy are completely the same as we, it would not stand to reason that the Force would not work on them. Moreover, the Force is not a localized phenomena to the SW Galaxy alone. The Vong are immune to the Force due to other things, not due to them being from another galaxy.

 

James,

The ghola Miles Teg was raised by the witches as well as having superspeed.

A kwisatz haderach (trained with prana-bindu, pretty much by definition, as they drank the Water of Life and would have to know how to not die) could see into the future farther than any Jedi, so neither would be at a disadvantage in predicting what the other would do.

One could suppose the kwisatz haderach would probably do something that would end up saving humanity, and ultiamtely win, even if he died.

 

I believe that the Voice does actually work on other BG, however I don't think it is usually employed out of respect and a single unified goal of the sisterhood.

Aslo touching on what Roman mentions, the witches could prevent themselves from killing themselves at a molecular level, I don't think the Jedi can do that.

 

Mara Jade was capable of that during the Yuzhan vong invasion.

The voice would be as effective on a jedi as a mind trick on a troydarian. Conversely a jedi mind trick would be no good on a benegesserit. Unless we are talking ssomeone in the Yoda, Exar Kun, Luke Skywalker, or Emperor Palpatine range.

 

Roman:

Yes, but Miles Teg' extra powers are not to be considered part of the Weirding Way. To say that Miles Teg, specifically, would whoop on a Vapaad user, speaks of Miles Teg's super-mentat abilities.

The Chosen One prophecy was written down thousands of years before Anakin Skywalker was born and did come to pass. This implies that at least some Jedi have equal power. Moreover, it was not Paul's pranu-bindu training (which he received some, but not to the level of a BG I do believe) but rather his genetics (which made him supposed-to-be one step away from being a Kwisatz Hadernach) that allowed him to seek out the areas that female BGs never could/were able to reach. Moreover, the idea of a Kwisatz Hadernach is aside from the Weirding Way.

OpteronGuy:

I seem to recall a scene where either Paul or Leto II throw back the VOice at a Reverend Mother, which only shocks her - not really stops her - from using the Voice back at them, which they were previously resisting. Of course, this could be fuzzy memory, but anyone know what I speak of here?

Considering the punishment Jedi are easily able to take - including Obi-Wan falling what seems to be about 60-100 feet in Ep 1 on solid Durasteel - this would seem to not be so. Jedi are capable of just as many acts of supernatural bodily feats as Bene Gesserit. They are even capable of keeping themselves from being scalded by volcanic gas, as is demonstrated in one of the Jedi Academy books.

 

Well, there are only what, 3 or 4 practicers of Vapaad, right? All are of extremely high caliber. They're heros or antagonists. They're the ones that all thee bullets miraculously miss in the movies while all the regular jedi fill up on blaster holes.

So I think it's only fair that we hand pick the best and brightest from the Dune universe to compete with purple lightsabers.

 

I was actually hoping to speak of Vapaad v. The Weirding Way as a system, but if you'd like, we could have a Mace Windu v. Miles Teg battle.

 

Vapaad is for battle, and for that matter, only 4 people use it. And only 3 mastered it.

The Weirding Way is a way of life. One could completely read what another was thinking through minutiae and perform multi-level calculations.

So in a straight up fight, the Jedi would probably win (especially if a lightsaber was involved), as the Jedi happens to be one of the best fighters in the universe, and hangs around just to tear stuff up.

 

Roman:

I do believe the reading which you speak of is not, once again, related to the WEirding Way, but mentat related things. Aside from Truthsaying abilities, the BG do not seem to have anything more than a great knowledge of humans.

 

From the link you provided:

 

Roman:

Mental multitasking does not imply something more analogous to a mentat's capacity to infer on a "supra-logical level" revelations of practical impact. Simulflow is more related to the capacity for the Bene Gesserit to think many things at once.

 

Ultimately if a BG wanted to take out a Jedi alls she would have to do is scramble his brain in much the same way that the do in the Prequel books with the Titans. Sure it's death for both, but this would give the BG one last upper hand in a fight.

 

OpteronGuy:

Considering the quality of the prequels compared to the original Dune saga, I think it would be best to keep to them to separate considerations.