Vaccine related autism study?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Magical Realist, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "In a court-submitted opinion, neurologist Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, Director of Medical Research at the Kennedy Krieger Institute, stated that he had “personally witnessed [Hannah’s] developmental regression” following “vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation.”

    Zimmerman concluded that Hannah was vulnerable to vaccine injury because she had a metabolic disorder called mitochondrial dysfunction. While vaccines are safe for most children, in Hannah, they triggered a brain injury, according to Zimmerman.


    Whether vaccines “caused” or “triggered” Hannah’s autism, the result was the same: but for her vaccinations, Zimmerman said, “Hannah may have led a normal full productive life.” Instead, she suffers “significant lifelong disability.”

    A second underlying condition that was aggravated by vaccines, resulting in mental retardation and autism, is tuberous sclerosis or “TS,” according to a 1986 vaccine court case. According to the National Institutes of Health, TS affects 1 in every 6,000 newborns.

    Not all children who developed autism as a result of vaccine injuries, as determined by vaccine court, had identifiable pre-existing conditions. But I asked the CDC’s DeStefano whether it was worth trying to figure out what underlying conditions put kids at risk so they can be tested in advance and, if vulnerable, spared.

    “That’s very difficult to do,” DeStefano told me. He said the CDC’s priorities are gaining a better understanding of the pathogenesis, genetics and biology of autism. “And then, I think… it’d be more feasible to try to establish if vaccines in an individual case, say a person with a certain set of genes…if we ever get to that point, then that kind of research might be fruitful.”

    See CDC’s recommended vaccination schedule

    Not worthy of study?

    But it turns out the CDC has ruled out that sort of research. A CDC spokesman told me that the agency is not “currently investigating the relation between vaccines and autism spectrum disorders (ASD). Further, CDC does not have any planned research addressing vaccines and autism.”

    As of May, 2010 the government had compensated 1,296 vaccine brain damage(encephalopathy/encephalitis and seizure cases) but was not tracking how many of the brain-injured children specifically ended up with autism.




    “CDC believes that this topic has been thoroughly studied and no causal links have been found,” said the spokesman in an email.

    “Current CDC ASD related research focuses on determining how many people have ASD and understanding risk factors and causes for ASD,” said the CDC.


    Seven years after Hannah’s case settled, twenty-eight years after the TS case, it’s impossible to know how many similar children, if any, are out there. And the government isn’t trying to find out."
     
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  3. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Hannah recieved five vaccines in one day. Saying vaccines are bad because one girl's parents decided to overdose her is like saying drinking water is bad because there have been cases of water intoxication.

    Sure, she "may" have developed autism from her vaccines, but she got FIVE of them in the same day. Did her parents forget how vaccines work?
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Are you saying 5 vaccines in one day is too much? Why would THAT be?
     
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  7. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Overloading the body with nine different types of pathogen without any time to adapt and produce antibodies to each in turn, especially in an infant, was reckless and irresponable.
     
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Here's the vaccine schedule from the CDC. Note as many as 5 and 6 are recommended in the same month. The 9 she got are recommended over like 3 months. Are doctors aware of the dangers of having these all in one dose?

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/easy-to-read/child.html
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    She had an underlying condition.

    the Poling's neurologist Andrew Zimmerman wrote in a letter to the Poling's attorney's that there was a pre-existing mitochondrial dysfunction. Dr. Zimmerman wrote, "The cause for regressive encephalopathy in Hannah at age 19 months was underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, exacerbated by vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic energy reserves."

    Her own father, a neurologist, advised that there was no definitive answer that it was the vaccination that caused her autism but that more research was necessary to ensure children like his daughter, Hannah, would be able to be vaccinated.

    Dr Poling also had this to say for those who try to use his daughter's case to further their own anti-vaccination and autism causes:

    Despite the high frequency of mitochondrial dysfunction in autistic children,2 studies have not established primary or secondary roles. To explore this question, we need an immunization database for children with metabolic disorders to establish safety guidelines3 and improve vaccine safety for minority subgroups of children.

    I agree with the statement of Bernadine Healy, former director of the National Institutes of Health, who said, “I don't think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show. . . . If you know that susceptible group, you can save those children. If you turn your back on the notion there is a susceptible group . . . what can I say?”4 Also commendable is the new 5-year research plan of the National Vaccine Advisory Committee, which will entail the study of minority subpopulations, including patients with mitochondrial disorders.5

    A strong, safe vaccination program is a cornerstone of public health. Misrepresenting Hannah Poling v. HHS to the medical profession does not improve confidence in the immunization program or advance science toward an understanding of how and why regressive encephalopathy with autistic features follows vaccination in susceptible children.

    In other words, it is likely that children like Hannah may very well fall into the group of people who should not be vaccinated because of her underlying mitochondrial dysfunction. Which means that she would have otherwise been protected by herd immunity. Her father is correct, children with such disorders need to be tracked to improve vaccine safety for that group of children.
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  11. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    So does this mean we've gone from "vaccines cause autism" to "vaccines cause pneumonia"?
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. Pneumonia causes pneumonia. Just like measles causes measles.
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    Wow..

    The level of dishonesty and misrepresentation that you are pushing in this thread knows no bounds.
     
  14. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    That's odd. It sounded like you were claiming that the measles vaccine causes pneumonia.
    I'm not sure what that has to do with vaccines causing autism, though. Vaccines don't cause autism, by the way.
     
  15. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    Your tiny worldview is, quite simply, terrifying... there is far more to the world than just the United States...

    Again, you have yet to provide a single substantiated and backed study that actually shows a cause/effect relationship between the MMR vaccination (or ANY modern vaccination) and Autism...

    You have 12 hours to retract or support this statement, or you will be infracted, again, for intellectual dishonesty. That gives you until 8pm EST.

    So your "evidence" for this comes from an anti-vaccination website (http://www.vaclib.org/) and an "investigative reporter"named Sharyl Attkisson, who has ZERO medical education or training...

    I'm sorry, that doesn't cut the mustard. What you are doing is the equivalent of me, a CNIT major, trying to tell my allergist I don't need any antihistamines for my allergies because I happened to look at a website that said Royal Bee Jelly could cure them for me! It's ridiculous at the best, absolute dishonesty at the worst.

    Magical Realist, you have shown that this isn't about "truth" for you - it isn't about discovery or the pursuit of knowledge. This is some sort of sick game to you, and it's abhorrent. You ignore the simple facts, even when they are presented to you on a silver platter, and instead fling wild accusations, made-up statistics, imaginary correlations, and conspiracy nutcase websites around as though they were scientific fact.

    This flies in the face of EVERYTHING that SciForums is supposed to be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  16. Kristoffer Giant Hyrax Valued Senior Member

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    Vax on, vax off...

    Seriously, MR, you were clearly quote-mining and disregarding everything that doesn't side with your views.
     
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I acknowledged that there are papers showing no connection between vaccines and autism. There are 6 that the CDC continuously relies on. But that is not "no evidence of a connection." It is evidence conflicting with other evidence. More research is obviously needed to resolve these conflicts. That's what I was advocating. If that's life-endangering or heretical, I don't care. To me it's basic science, and something we owe to the parents of kids who came down with autistic symptoms when they were vaccinated with something like 9 vaccines in one dose!
     
  18. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    So you are arguing about thimerasol in vaccines (the vaccines that still have it in the US have trace amounts that have been deemed safe by people with far more medical experience than you)...
    You argue about deaths in the united states from Measles...
    But when it comes to thimerasol in vaccines, you then jump to outside the US...

    You pick and choose your arguments SPECIFICALLY to avoid the truth. You are a shining example of intellectual dishonesty at its best... suppressed evidence, fallacy of incomplete evidence, argument by selective observation, argument by half-truth, card stacking, fallacy of exclusion, ignoring the counter evidence, one-sided assessment, slanting, one-sidedness, call it what you will; at the end of the day, it is a logical fallacy, and your dependence upon it simply magnifies your dishonesty.

    As evidence (this is just one of many) you posted this study to support your position:

    (snipped due to character limit)

    Which Bells tore apart quite succinctly:





    You are confusing Argumentum ad populum with Inductive Logic - I am not using the fact that everyone else is disagreeing with you as proof that you are wrong, but rather as the basis that you should reconsider your evidence.

    Except your statement here is wrong - yes, you can quote whatever argument you want, but quoting JUST that which supports your position is known as suppressed evidence.
    http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/66-cherry-picking
    Interesting how you claim your motive is to "help people avoid being banned by me in the future"... yet the only one at risk of being banned is you, because you continually break the rules. Your attempt to appear altruistic is noted; an abject failure, but noted.

    As for James allowing this thread to persist, that is his prerogative - he is an administrator, and as such I defer to his judgement.

    NOTE - I apologize for truncating the quotes - damnable character limit...
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Cite the rule. It must be posted somewhere right? And your vile depiction of me is noted. To other members, this is the typical obscene treatment I am subjected to.
     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Trying to ban me again I see. So what part of "I have posted over 40 papers showing a link between vaccines and autism" don't you get? I posted the list twice, and I posted 8 papers from this list in my thread. You even admitted the Thimerasol studies were good evidence. So your accusation is false. I HAVE provided evidence for the vaccine/autism link, and I don't need to post it again. Your claim that they have been retracted requires proof, which you have failed to provide. So no, I am not your dog jumping thru your hoop again. The evidence is already posted, and your claim is false.

    Another flaming insult. You just can't help yourself can you?

    Another lie. All the papers I quoted are from real doctors and scientists, not people without education or experience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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  22. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    You have "provided the evidence" much the same as you did for those made up statistics, hm? Like:

    Also, where is your supporting evidence for:

    These are just a small sampling of your unsubstantiated claims...



    Interesting how your guilty conscience works... I was merely providing an example; you are the one who took it to apply to yourself *shrug*
     
  23. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Oh great, now you are going to post that dangerous and completely discredited assertion here. Unbelievable!
     

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