USOs

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Unidentified Submerged Object. This is a subcategory of ufo that is observed emerging from or submerging into a body of water. What are we to make of these? Here's one compelling case where such were observed to happen numerous times. It was called Operation Mainbrace and happened in the fall of 1952 over the North Sea:

     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "In August 1965, a crew of the steamship RADUGA, while navigating in the Red Sea, observed an unusual phenomenon. At about two miles away, a fiery sphere dashed out from under the water and hovered over the surface of the sea, illuminating it. The sphere was sixty meters in diameter, and it hovered above the sea at an altitude of 150 meters. A gigantic pillar of water rose as the sphere emerged from the sea and collapsed some moments later.

    In December 1977, not far from the Novy Georgy Island, the crew of the fishing trawler VASILY KISELEV also observed something quite extraordinary. Rising vertically from under the water was a doughnut-shaped object. Its diameter was between 300 and 500 meters. It hovered at the altitude of four to five kilometers. The trawler's radar station was immediately rendered inoperative. The object hovered over the area for three hours, and then disappeared instantly. The testimony of Alexander G. Globa, a seaman from GORI, a Soviet tanker, was published in Zagadki Sfinksa magazine (Issue # 3, 1992) Odessa,. In June 1984, GORI was in the Mediterranean, twenty nautical miles from the Straight of Gibraltar. At 16:00, Globa was on duty. With him was Second-in-Command S. Bolotov. They were standing watch at the left bridge extension wing when both men observed a strange polychromatic object. When the object was astern, it stopped suddenly.

    S. Bolotov was agog, shaking his binoculars and shouting: "It is a flying saucer, a real saucer, my God, hurry, hurry, look!" Globa looked through his own binoculars and saw, at a distance over the stern, a flattened out looking object (it did remind him of an upside-down frying pan). The UFO was gleaming with a grayish metallic shine. The lower portion of the craft had a precise round shape, its diameter no more than twenty meters. Around the lower portion of it Globa also observed "waves" of protuberances on the outside plating.

    The base of the object's body consisted of two semi-discs, the smaller being on top; they slowly revolved in opposing directions. At the circumference of the lower disc Globa saw numerous shining, bright, bead-like lights. The seaman's attention was centered on the bottom portion of the UFO. It looked as if it was completely even and smooth, its color that of a yolk, and in the middle of it Globa discerned a round, nucleus-like stain. At the edge of the UFO's bottom, which was easily visible, was something that looked like a pipe. It glowed with an unnaturally bright rosy color, like a neon lamp. The top of the middle disc was crowned by a triangular-shaped something. It seemed that it moved in the same direction as the lower disc, but at a much slower pace.

    Suddenly, the UFO jumped up several times, as if moved by an invisible wave. Many lights illuminated its bottom portion. The crew of GORI tried to attract the object's attention using a signal projector. By that time Captain Sokolovky was on the desk with his men. He and his Second-in-Command were watching the object intensely. However, the UFO's attention was distracted by another ship, approaching at the port side. It was an Arab dry cargo ship, on its way to Greece. The Arabs confirmed that the object hovered over their ship. A minute and a half later the object changed its flight's trajectory, listed to the right, gained speed and ascended rapidly. The Soviet seamen observed that when it rose through the clouds, appearing and disappearing again, it would occasional shine in the sun's rays. The craft then flared up, like a spark, and was gone instantly."===http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc744.htm
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That second one is actually pretty impressive. I watched it several times.

    I'll ignore the fact that the refernce is a British tabloid - there are other references online (not that YouTube is not much better than tabloid).


    The first 5 minutes of this video - while admittedly a pro-UFO organization - lists some facts about the nature and circumstance of the sighting and seems to be pretty genuine.
     
  9. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    That is a good one. Definitely not a bird..
     
  10. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    The problem is, that isn't the cockpit of a MiG-21.

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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Were there different versions of the Mig 21? Equipment upgrades? Modifications? Seems you'd have to cover all those bases before concluding it's not that particular aircraft. In any case, what relevance does the type of jet have to do with this ufo sighting?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  12. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    I don't know. That is definitely something that would have to be investigated. It should be fairly easy to identify what model that comes from and if it's a MiG.

    Yes, I should not have said it isn't the cockpit of a MiG-21. I should say it doesn't appear to be that. This all speaks to the credibility of the story and the origins of the footage. Could it have been a US or Russian jet tracking a new missile? It is a striking video but that doesn't rule out more mundane explanations. When I was active in this, these are the sorts of things I would investigate in order to provide the proper context. Sometimes these shows are spot on and report exactly what was reported to have happened. Other times, they are just blowing smoke and making stuff up. This particular video is one that I always wanted to learn more about but never did. I don't know if any history can be found but it might be possible to identify the aircraft being used. If it's not a MiG, then clearly the story that goes with the video is bogus.

    There is another video that is rather amazing. It seems to clearly show a disc at close range, flying right along side a fighter jet, as seen from the cockpit. I always have a hard time finding that one but it one of the best videos out there that I've seen. Maccabee also investigated a film of a small craft that is seen moving very quickly in and out of the frame, over a lake. It moves from the left to center, stops for a moment, and then darts back off to the left, and too fast to be anything identifiable. Maccabee found that is casts a shadow on the water below. That, and I guess a few other markers, fix the distance and makes it very interesting. [Maccabee is an optical physicist]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I don't agree. Just because the aircraft isn't the kind cited in the documentary doesn't mean the video is bogus. There is no A therefore B logic there at all. And ofcourse you are claiming the jet doesn't appear to be a MIG 21 based on a very limited view of the cockpit. I don't think that's adequate to conclude fakery either.
     
  14. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't say it meant the video is bogus. In fact, it is fairly clear that the video isn't bogus. What is in question is the story behind it. It is a simple matter of ruling out anything whenever possible. This is fairly easy to check because there aren't that many types of aircrafts. If it isn't a MiG-21 we already know the story isn't correct. If it isn't a Soviet craft then the footage probably wasn't secreted out of the Soviet Union either. In short, nothing about the story can be believed.

    No need to go off the rails. Rule out the obvious whenever possible. It is the logical thing to do. There is nothing cooler than scrutinizing something that seems amazing, putting it to every test you can, and then discovering that it really does appear to be amazing footage or evidence of something highly anomalous. Otherwise you might as well be watching a television program because it provides no real information. You don't know what you see or what to believe. It is just noise.

    I thought the Iran '76 document was total bs. There was virtually no doubt in my mind because it would provide a much higher level of authenticity than I had ever seen. I was sure it was an internet special - a fake. I was shocked when I found the file at the NSA and downloaded it directly - completely blown away. This was a whole new ball game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't mean the story is bogus. Could be a modified Mig 21. Could be a Mig something else. The story is pretty self-evident. A military jet fighter video obviously tapes a ufo. How can you claim the story is incorrect based on one questioned detail?

    I have no reason to doubt military jet video just because there is an equipment appendage that doesn't match the google image I found of other Mig 21 cockpits. The video looks real to me. The jet looks real to me. The story sounds real to me. End of story.

    Question: is this a Mig 21 cockpit?

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  16. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    Look, this isn't rocket science. They said it's a MiG-21 from film secreted out of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet. If it isn't a MiG, then the story is false. And from what we can see, the UFO could be a cruise missile or something similar. It may be a UFO to us but that doesn't mean it was to the pilot. Without a military report that documents the encounter, we have no way to know what we are seeing. It could be something or it could be nothing anomalous.

    Okay fine, then what are we seeing? Is it an alien spacecraft or a missile or a test rocket of some kind. And how do you know?

    Late Edit: It is almost certainly not a MiG-21. There was a beam that obstructed the view through the window, where the camera has a clear view. It isn't unreasonable that the type of aircraft involved was simply misstated. But it seems clear that the story is technically incorrect if not fabricated. If it isn't a MiG then the story is false. That is irrefutable. If it is another type of MiG then the story cannot be falsified based on the information we have.

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Every case is "compelling" to you, no matter how shoddy. Remember that obviously-faked UFO photo that you recently found compelling?
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Not every case is compelling. Just the ones I select to post here. Remember those 18 cases I posted that noone had a response to?
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    The ufo is clearly a cylindrical shaped object and not a missile. Furthermore, it clearly speeds up as seen in the video. Missiles don't do this. There's also no flame or plume of smoke coming out of it. I still maintain that the story given is accurate regardless of the type of jet that was involved. I posted a pic of a Mig 21 cockpit that looks different from the pic you posted as proof that there are variations in their equipment. Your claim that the story is false is unsubstantiated. I rest my case. Now, do you have any more information about that Maccabee video?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Previously, I decided to address a few specific "compelling" examples of the paranormal that you posted. It turned out that you weren't interested in really looking at them in detail. You wanted to continue to Gish gallop of flooding the forum with one video after another, never stopping for a moment to allow proper examination of any particular case.

    I assume this behaviour is because you are not confident that any of your "compelling" cases will hold its own against careful criticism.
     
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah..we saw how you "addressed" those cases, claiming it is possible they were faked. That's not addressing anything. That's making up something based on no evidence. As for your so called Gish Gallop, that's just whining about there being too much evidence. Lord knows one wouldn't want to overwhelm you with multiple cases.
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Making up something based on no evidence would be like posting some grainy video with no established provenance, claiming it was "homeland security" footage of an alien spacecraft.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Regarding the opening post...

    In the 5 minutes of that video, we get one blurry photo of an unidentified blob on an old photo. That's the only physical evidence for all the rest of the anecdote. And there's no guarantee that photo wasn't faked up, just like the faked alien spacecraft footage that was inserted among the old footage of ships and things to try to sex up the UFO angle.

    Again, what is "compelling" about this nonsense? There's no evidence here - just some guy talking to camera while he proudly wears his "UFO's - I'm a believer!" hat.

    There are no experts vouching for the authenticity of any of the accounts or the documents (if any actual documents are shown). All we have is a related anecdote, and the usual claims of cover-ups by the military and the usual paranoia.

    The story we are asked to swallow is that hundreds of people saw these alien craft and yet only one of them bothered to snap off a photo. Doesn't that strike anybody as a a little strange?
     

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