US Marines urinate on dead Taliban

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Captain Kremmen, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    7,829
    Him obviously.

    If you can't tell the HUGE difference between pissing on a corpse and killing someone then something is very wrong with you.
     
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  3. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    "The measure of a great civilization is in the flair with which it pisses on it's enemies' corpses."

    -- Arthur
     
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  5. Spud Emperor solanaceous common tater Registered Senior Member

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    No, the law would string up your sorry arse.

    Ahem, on behalf of the whole forum....Arthur, you are a fucking knob.
     
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  7. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

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    So you can't tell the difference between killing someone and pissing on a dead body?

    Really hard to believe anyone is that clueless.
     
  8. Spud Emperor solanaceous common tater Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,899
    Errrr, obnoxious fucking knob?
     
  9. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    No, actually I suggest more like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl8H-rm6kt4
     
  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    The practise of killing groups of innocent people is worse, I grant you that,
    but the US military seems to have understood that that is counter productive.
    Remember when hardly a week passed without some tribal wedding being blasted out of existence?
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    24,062
    And under military law/codes in the US, descration of a corpse is deemed a war crime, as shown above.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    A Vanderbilt University professor told CNN he believes the Marines' actions could amount to a war crime.

    There are certain treaties that govern warfare. The Geneva Conventions provide protections to civilians, soldiers, and prisoners of war. They have been ratified by 194 countries, including the United States. The conventions deal with disposal of dead.

    The deceased generally must be dealt with respectfully. Article 17 of the First Geneva Convention of 1949 says that adverse parties that die must be interned honorably. And, if possible, they should be buried according to their religion.

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/20...d&utm_campaign=Feed: Blotter (FindLaw Blotter)

    The Law Professor at Vanderbilt University is Mike Newton.
    and I would suggest that he knows more about Military Law than you do adoucette. He graduated at West Point, and was a professor there.
    see http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2012/01/newton-afghanistan/
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  13. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    adoucette seriously, what WONT you defend if a government employee does it?
     
  14. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Nope

    The US defines a War Crime as a GRAVE BREACH of the Geneva Conventions.

    It goes on to define what those GRAVE BREACHES are.

    It does not include desecrating a body.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html

    So yes, it is in violation of the GC but it is not what we define as a War Crime.

    To do so simply diminishes the entire concept of what an actual War Crime is.
     
  15. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Which is why I looked up the definition of War Crimes.
    And we limit them to GRAVE BREACHES of the Geneva Conventions.

    We go on to define these Grave Breaches:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html

    Indeed we qualify them so that it's clear that a slap doesn't equate to a war crime:

    (2) Definitions.— In the case of an offense under subsection (a) by reason of subsection (c)(3)—
    ...
    (D) the term “serious physical pain or suffering” shall be applied for purposes of paragraph (1)(B) as meaning bodily injury that involves—
    (i) a substantial risk of death;
    (ii) extreme physical pain;
    (iii) a burn or physical disfigurement of a serious nature (other than cuts, abrasions, or bruises); or
    (iv) significant loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty;

    Clearly pissing on a corpse is not a Grave Breach of these Conventions.
     
  16. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,062
    And yet, military manuals, which govern the conduct of US defense force personnel consider the desecration of corpses to be a war crime (you can refer to what was linked earlier).

    For example:

    U.S. NAVY NWP 1-14M
    U.S. MARINE CORPS MCWP 5-12.1
    U.S. COAST GUARD COMDTPUB P5800.7A

    THE COMMANDER’S HANDBOOK ON THE LAW OF NAVAL OPERATIONS

    6.2.6 War Crimes under International Law

    The following acts, if committed intentionally, are examples of acts that could be considered war crimes, but would not be considered grave breaches of the Conventions:

    1. Plunder and pillage of public or private property
    2. Mutilation or other mistreatment of the dead


    [Source - refer to page 95-96]


    So you were saying?

    You can scroll down to page 97, which then advises of reportable offenses because they constitue a 'violation of the law of war' and guess what Arthur? Mutilating and desecration of the dead is included in the list.
     
  17. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    685
    source

    Anyone notice the three qualifying words ... could ... considered ... potential? You'd need to eliminate all three for what happened to "be a war crime"?

    It just shows that Americans rank Afghanis on one of the lowest rungs of the ladder.
     
  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    I think holding a Nurnberg type trial for these Patton wannabees would be excessive. If Gross disrespect for Human Rights needs to be put on trial, then the torturers at Guantanamo are surely a better target. Just turf these people out, and send them back to the towns where they came from.

    What is more worrying for the Afghanis is the US soldiers who weren't dopey enough to film themselves acting like Neanderthals.
    The ones that are still there.
    The soldiers who have to make split second decisions on who is a combatant and who is an innocent citizen. On who lives, and who donates a souvenir finger.

    I think I can imagine the priorities of a lot of them.
    Shoot first, think later.
     
  19. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,519
    From what I have seen reported so far, it is not the "urinating on corpses" that got them in trouble - but recording it and allowing the folks back home to see it!
    Just as the administration did not want the public to see the flag draped coffins of our war dead on the evening news every night, they do not want americans back home to be witnesses to the atrocities of war.
    The american people should get together and collectively urinate on the cowardly draft dodging chickenhawks who send young americans off to fight and die in wars started for and by corporate america.
    Why are we in Afghanistan in the first place? Is it because 19 Afghanistanis hijacked 4 planes on September 11th 2001?
    Remember, I have no qualms about being the dumbest man on earth.
     
  20. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829

    Yes Bells it says they COULD be considered War Crimes under international law (which commanders need to be aware of)

    Doesn't say they are War Crimes under US LAW.

    Because as I have pointed out, they aren't
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    It is more gross misconduct than a war crime.
    The Vanderbilt Professor says it could be construed as a war crime, and I accept his opinion, but it isn't likely that they will end up at an international court.
    Why is there such a focus here on the term "War Crime", anyway?
    In the catalogue of human villainy, this event is hardly worth a mention,
    if it were not compounded with the incredible level of stupidity involved in filming it.

    There surely must be some rule in the Marine book about acting in a way which brings disgrace on your country and your uniform.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  22. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Which is pretty much what I've been saying, it's not accepted conduct, but it isn't a war crime.

    Because several people on this board have been calling for sending these guys to PRISON for this.

    And they are using the term "War Crime" to justify their position.

    As if pissing on a corpse was in anyway similar to actual War Crimes like Rape, Torture, Executing prisoners etc.

    Yes, which will get you in trouble with your CO, and even potentially a dishonorable discharge, but it doesn't justify locking someone up in prison.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  23. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    I agree entirely. A War Crime Trial. What a cruel joke that would be.
    Treating it as a War Crime would be a political decision, rather than one of justice.
    It isn't of enough importance to merit it.

    These soldiers are completely screwed up, that's for sure.
    Seeing people turned into butcher's chopping blocks messes with people's heads.
    These guns are like throwing knives at the speed of sound,
    carving people instantly into pieces. Rat a tat.

    I don't know what will become of them once they get back home.
    Sick puppies.
    Probably no-one will give a damn.

    They couldn't have chosen a worse time to do it.
    Just as the Taliban are engaging in a "Peace Process".

    Trying this as a War Crime would be farcical, and unjust.
    And another example of hypocrisy.
    Sounds feasible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012

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