US is facing an inequality crisis. Trump is not the answer.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by James R, Jan 29, 2024.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    In an exclusive interview with Sarah Ferguson and Marina Freri, for the ABC (Australia), Bernie Sanders had some interesting things to say. A summary:
    • Sanders says "Millions of people [the US] are hurting, they're suffering. They're working for inadequate wages. In America, our health care system is a disaster. [People] can't afford to send their kids to college, housing costs are off the chart ... and they're looking at the government, they're looking at what Democrats have done for years and not much has happened to improve their lives."
    • "... It's not just because everybody who votes for Trump is a racist or a sexist or a homophobe."
    • "People are feeling that government does not listen, does not understand their pain. And they are turning to somebody who says 'Forget all of that. I've got the answer. Don't worry about democracy. I'll take care of it for you.'"
    • "Everything is at stake [in the coming election] ... if the United States moves in an authoritarian way, it will certainly send a signal to every country on Earth that that's the future of politics. [Trump's] a phoney, he's a pathological liar. But I'm afraid his appeal is working."
    On the question of the growing division between rich and poor in the United States, Sanders makes the following points:
    • The American middle class has been shrinking for decades. In real, the average American worker gets lower wages than 50 years ago.
    • Kids of the current generation might grow up to have a lower standard of living than their parents.
    • Between 2019 and 2021, according to a study by Deloitte's Global Economist Network, the net worth of America's top 1 percent of earners increased by 23%.
    • According to the Economic Policy Institute, in 1965 the ratio of pay between a typical CEO and a typical worker was 20 to 1. By 2018, the ratio was 278 to 1. The gap has continued to rise.
    • Three people in the US own more wealth, combined, than the bottom 50% of American people.
    • Three Wall Street firms are the major shareholders in 95% of the major corporations in America.
    • The existence of a billionaire class isn't just about wealth inequality but also it's impact on the political system: "The result is that in every election, the people on top are spending more and more money to elect the candidates they want to see ... so what you're seeing is a political system which is increasingingly controlled by billionaires. And that is true in both political parties."
    Sanders also has some thoughts for the Democratic Party:
    • "Too many Democratic leaders have kind of given up on the working class of this country."
    • "Biden is not going to win if young people do not vote in large numbers, if working class people do not support him. And I think it makes sense to him. The truth is the progressive agenda is an enormously popular agenda. This is not a fringe agenda."
    • "We have made progress in recent years in terms of more Blacks in positions of power, more women, certainly in positions of power ... I think we still have a long way to go to bring young people into the political process."
    • ".... [O]ur job is ... to make it very clear that Biden has done some good things ... I think he's not getting the credit for what he has done. What we have got to make clear to ordinary Americans is, 'You may not like everything that Biden has done, maybe you think he's too old ... but you know what? The alternative is a hell of a lot worse."
    ---
    So, what do you think? Is Bernie Sanders out of touch, or is he on the money on this?
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Most of what he said is true. The growing levels of inequality in the US are a huge problem. and are going to get worse. So when a shyster comes along and tells them "I'll fix all that, overnight, and Mexico will pay for it all!" they believe him. And when he doesn't, and he says "it's because of Hunter Biden's laptop" again, they believe him.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    He is out of touch in the sense that he is just playing with numbers and emotions. The average of all family income in 1970 and today is roughly equivalent when adjusted for inflation. You wouldn't know that from reading the above.

    The numbers are $9,870 vs $67,521

    The gap between various groups is real but not particularly relevant. If the people who invest did better than those that didn't but overall everyone's income has kept pace with inflation then it's far less of a story.

    The narrative that he pushes is that one group shouldn't be doing better than another group. That's not an economic argument, that's just his own argument. When we moved from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy, those who didn't adapt didn't do as well as those who did. They still kept pace with inflation but others did a lot better because they embraced the change.

    It's not up to the government to make sure everyone has the same results, those who adapt and those who don't.

    That's where the misdirection comes in. It's like the meme's showing a bunch of CEO's and their salaries and then doing a multiple of their salary vs the lowest paid in their company and if that multiple goes up, it's supposed to be bad. It's not relevant. It's comparing apples to oranges.

    If you do well and I do better, that's not a problem. If just means that we have even more opportunity now. If doesn't mean someone is guaranteed "the American Dream". It never was a guarantee.

    I saw a meme about how much several billionaires were worth in 2020 and how much they were worth in 2023 (it went up a lot) and then how the minimum wage has been $7.25 for years (or whatever it is).

    Again, that's comparing apples to oranges. The market determines wages and prices, not the billionaires and the whole concept of the minimum wage is not relevant in the first place so it's just a misdirection based on emotion.

    Sanders is right about Trump of course but everyone other than the MAGA cult already knows that so that's hardly news either.

    The problem is with those who think you can mandate "affordable housing", "a living wage", etc. That's not how it works. The free market works quite well. Sellers want to sell for the highest price and pay the lowest price for all costs. The buyers want to pay the lowest price. Employees want the highest wage.

    Prices have a lid because competition will come in it the price gets too high. Wages have a lid is everyone can do that job and there are enough people without jobs. Where that's not the case wages will go up.

    You can't tamper with one part of the system without it effecting all parts of the system. You can raise property taxes to pay for homeless shelters but you've just made housing even more expensive.

    You can demand wages to rise and inflation will also rise and wipe out the gains and taken to extremes it leads to runaway inflation and no one wins.

    You can try to "tax the rich" and the rich will just adjust to the new laws, move, or whatever but revenue won't go up for long.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2024
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