US: 30 shot at school, China: 22 knifed at school

Here is the Republican position from the National Review Online ( a conservative journal). It's an interesting article. But their solution boils down to more guns, more guns in schools.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund#

 

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Wikipedia disagrees with you.
Assault rifle.

And Heckler -Koch.

 

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Ultimately if we are to address this honestly, that's a matter of semantics. Suppose we walk away from the word "insane" for a moment. Wipe that slate clean, and suppose we define mental health as follows: a person who maintains right thinking is mentally healthy, and a person who deviates from right thinking is unhealthy. Forget for a moment the problematics of measuring it and classifying it. I would simply ask: What right thinking involves arming for mortal combat? Answer: nothing. That's where the insanity begins.

There is a huge gap between honesty and denial which lies at the root cause of the relentless slaughter of human beings in the modern world. Cure the denial, and the huge logjam that paralyzes world progress is suddenly freed. Address the underlying phobias, delusions and psychopathy that infiltrate people's minds by implementing genuinely proactive policies to promote right thinking. Above all, strive to elevate human dignity. Teach children from a very early age, and throughout their education, that right thinking begins with honesty. There is a dishonest superstructure of denial and propaganda seen in the the Right Wing elements of government. These need to be excised. Public officials need to be held liable for perjury when they deliberately lie. When young people see a system that's run by rational, temperate and honest officials, this is when right thinking becomes a tangible concept. "Do as I say, not as I do" may work for adults, but it damages the fragile mental health of the young and impressionable. All people need to be able to recognize the markers of unsound thinking, to know to ask for help, and to always be mindful of the importance of tending to their own mental health. When initiated at a very young age and reinforced throughout all years of schooling, it is conceivable that no child would grow into wrong thinking. Conversely, if we keep kicking the can down the road, and letting kids end up where the chips may fall, then we are staging the crimes of the future.

 

I don't know how you are going to ban guns when anyone can print one out and assemble it using a 3D printer.

http://www.gizmag.com/first-3d-printed-firearm/23473/

 

probably the same way anything else contraband and capable of being synthesized gets banned I guess ....

PS : "Anyone" ... I doubt it

 

Technically its easier to make a bomb then a gun, but those are "ban", shit man give me some kerosene and ammonium nitrate and I will totally blow my fr'king hands off for the lulz!

 

I think the point was missed. How do you objectively define a mentally stable or unstable person? As far as the NRA is concerned, so what if they are pushing to end background checks? If they want to waste their money and time pushing then let them push all they want, they will be rejected like they were in that article you posted.

I was referring to the results of the Kellerman study and that shows lots of incompetence. But yes Lanza's mom (and her son) were both competent. In recent news today it looks like the son planned everything out very carefully.

This is because you value safety over freedom and cannot understand how people could choose the reverse especially when faced with consequential tragedy. America will never be a safe country. There are two signs at the front door. One says "Give me liberty or give me death". The other says "Danger, enter at your own risk".

Your argument is that the Lanza family failed (for whatever reason); therefore, all families who train with firearms will fail. It's a rather silly fallacy.

The U.S. is a country that values freedom over safety. What that means is that when the two butt heads, freedom is going to be the victor. There is no right to safety.

Maybe you will understand via a different approach. At all points in human history there are people whom harm people and it happens for one simple reason, it's not forbidden by reality. Would it be your preference to be easy to harm or risky to try and harm?

Actually I am free to walk down the street and shoot a gun in the air. There might be negative consequences to it, but I am free to do it. I also don't have to lift a finger to sacrafice someone's safety. The sacrafice is already made just by being a U.S. citizen.

I have seen evidence that you may not understand; however, I'll clarify my position for you. The U.S. is a both a "free" place and an "unsafe" place. It's expected that the lack of safety will result in injury or death for some people. Anything that people declare as "problems" have to be solved under that context, not by changing the context.

 

show me ANYWHERE where those CHILDREN chose "Freedom" over safety?

 

Yes, there is that crowd.

While I agree that the U.S. is mental health deficient, I am not sure that using just law will provide any benefit. I see potential improvement if something like this can be done:

* Provide very easy to access mental health assistance.
* Provide outlets for people to vent their destructive behaviors.
* Provide strong incentives to use both.

Certainly not an easy nor a cheap task.

 

http://www.unicef.org/southafrica/SAF_resources_crcchildfriendly.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness

So how the HELL can any of you try to argue that this obsession with guns and "freedom" is in line with the RIGHTS of the child OR even your own countries founding

The constitutional right to life is a little more complex

 

It's strange that gun ownership for self defense is being equated to fear. When its cold outside, do you put on a jacket because you are afraid of the cold or do you put on a jacket because you don't want to be cold? It's no different than someone whom owns a gun because they don't want to be an easy target. Some people learn martial arts for that same reason.

You are correct about something, guns don't make me (nor anyone else) free. It's interesting that you might have the perception that Americans think that however.

 

Their parents chose for them by raising them in the U.S.

 

There is not better ethos argument then this:

1. Person argues he and every American has the right to own guns.
2. Show said person a pile of bullet riddle American child corpses.

 

Try again

 

The U.S. isn't a pedocracy. You were correct about the three "founding founders" core values for the U.S.: Life (freedom to survive), liberty (freedom from oppression), and the pursuit of happiness (freedom to pursue whatever makes you happy).

 

The Sciforums Libertarian contingent seems to be missing in action. They have been awfully quiet on this issue which is very unusual for them. Where are the Libertarian morality lectures? Where are the Libertarians?

 

you could more than likely make a chemical weapon out shit you'd find at your local pool.

 

You are very naively and very romantically assuming that current Western psychotherapy knows how to help with and cure all mental problems.
It doesn't.

If for the lack of success you simply blame people - then that is just cruel.

Why vent it? Why not go to the core of it, address it there, deal with it there, so that no "venting" is necessary?

?!

Mental health should be a reward in and of itself, not something you are encouraged to do or have so that then you can get a free t-shirt.