# Unwanted Religious Solicitation

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by PsychoticEpisode, Feb 14, 2009.

1. ### PsychoticEpisodeIt is very dry in here todayValued Senior Member

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Could religious extremists force the shutdown of the SciForums religon subsection? Perhaps I'm planting a seed in some goofball's mind but I wonder if this has been given any thought by the powers to be?

Q's thread re Islamic extremists in Britain indirectly poses this potential threat. Maybe this is the wrong place to debate it and SciForums brass would like to avoid the topic altogether but could they be coerced into closing it down? That goes for any forum that conducts open discussion on religion that may seem offensive to some groups.

If countries such as Britain are taking extremists seriously then I would have no problem with SciForums dumping religion. I can understand why they would if threatened.

To SciForums administrators I ask you point blank, would you remove religion from the forum if religious extremism came knocking at your front door? or would you welcome it and promote debate?

If the religious can force their will on all forms of government then how can it be stopped? Has it gone too far already? Is it going to take something cataclysmic to start its eradication? What do you do?

Its all fine and dandy to say extremists aren't recognized as true believers but they are the ones with guns, bombs and tickets to heaven. Free speech isn't free if someone is pointing a weapon at you.

No one could blame SciForums if they shut down or at least censored religious debate if lives are at stake. Right now there is a no preaching rule in effect. Can anyone envision a time when publishing anti-religious sentiment becomes verboten? Could science and related subjects (including forums) themselves be threatened by the extremist culture?

2. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

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This has already been discussed internally, not because of "Religious Extremists" though but the basis that this site is supposedly predominantly a Science site.

A few of us wouldn't of minded if Religion and even World Events/Politics were lost forever, however in each of those cases it was just personal preference and personal viewpoint in regards to how this site should operate. In the end it as suggested "Most traffic occurs in World Events/ Politics and Religion", So I guess you can say we sold out scientific principles to "please the masses" and keep the traffic.

This simply means that Religion is "Tolerated" here.

As far as I am concerned personally... All Religion is a load of shit, created by men to control more men. A Communism in a way since there were no publically "elected" officials within their Religious hierarchy, just people that accumulate power by being "More brainwashed" than the rest.

Like I said, It's my personal opinion and unfortunately for me both Law and Human Rights dictates that I have to put up with other people preaching their brainwashed drivel, otherwise I would choose to live in a society without Religion.

Obviously it's pretty funny in a way because the religious zealots might trying to brainwash people into believing all sorts of things about me, rather than actually stepping back and seeing that they are just a pawn in another man's power game.

3. ### PsychoticEpisodeIt is very dry in here todayValued Senior Member

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3,452
Well said.

What I don't like is the potential of a zealot's impression of science to be considered anti-religious or an affront to ideology. But I guess it's just not science that receives this treatment.

Even though I spend considerable time there, I wouldn't lose any sleep if the religious subforum disappeared. In fact I'd prefer to debate it on the religious sites but unfortunately many of them exercise their ban buttons for those of us who appear to be Satan's favorite messenger. Talk about a double standard.

Still. I can't help thinking that someday, pressure is going to be exerted in either a friendly or beligerent way that may force SciForums to erase religion from its index.

4. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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Maybe the people who do not want a religion forum should quit posting in it.

Perhaps then they might be taken seriously.

5. ### PsychoticEpisodeIt is very dry in here todayValued Senior Member

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Not that I don't want it SAM, it's just that I wouldn't lose any sleep if it was dismantled.

6. ### SkinWalkerArchaeology / AnthropologyModerator

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I don't see how Sciforums could ever remove the Religion subforum. Or at least have something where discussions of religion as a social phenomenon would exist.

There are many disciplines of science that are either concerned with or affected by Religion -that pervasive human need to appeal to one or more supernatural deities in organized fashion. Because of this, it would be wholey appropriate for a science forum to have a place to discuss the anthropological, sociological, philosophcial, and psychological aspects of Religion and religious thought. In addition, we should have a place to discuss the affects that religious thought and particular sects of religion have upon sciences like geology and biology.

Finally, I disagree completely with the notion that one should curtail discourse on social institutions simply because they're afraid to offend, particularly when that institution has such a significant effect on society as a whole. And it doesn't matter if that affect is perceived as beneficial or deleterious.

7. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

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you have obviously spent very little time contemplating what a total removal of religion would do to our society as a whole.

8. ### Betrayer0fHopeMY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYYRegistered Senior Member

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I hate youuuuu. Religion removed=I lose all my morals again and everyone goes crazy, minus the atheists who were already raping and murdering everyone even though it's obvious "morals" without religion is possible. Right?

9. ### James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member

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Not a chance. Plenty have tried to turn sciforums into their personal soapbox. None have succeeded.

In my opinion there's no point in making certain topics taboo just because they are controversial. Topics that generate large amounts of discussion often do so precisely because they are controversial, or because some people hold extreme opinions on them.

I like to think that sciforums represents a voice of moderation on many issues. While we have extremists here, both religious and political and (pseudo-)scientific, they are invariably in the minority. For every one person sitting at the extreme end of a political spectrum or a religion, there are 10 or 20 others here who will happily point out the deficiencies of taking such a position. Thus, in most things, most of the time, we tread a middle path. Visitors coming here can see all points of view, and the extremes are generally tempered by the voices of reason. I think that it is in this respect that sciforums' primary identity as a science site is most valuable.

Generally, I like to think we welcome debate. However, I personally draw the line when people come here only to preach their creed. When they refuse to interact with others other than to shout them down, or when they come here only to post their personal dogma, then often they create a situation where their own continued presence here becomes untenable.

Mostly, though, I find that moderator action is not required to cull religious extremists from this site. The majority of the membership ensures that extremism gets a hard time here, and most extremists end up leaving of their own accord, to go to troll new or easier pastures.

10. ### leopoldValued Senior Member

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yes indeed, you have lived your entire life in a globally atheist society haven't you.

11. ### PsychoticEpisodeIt is very dry in here todayValued Senior Member

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Off hand I'd say there would be one less thread.

12. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

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Although I stated my points in the previous diatribe, I do every so often perform the function of moving Old threads (Those that haven't been posted to in 1 year) to the Sanctity of the Non-posting Archives.

The overall Thread/Post count alone actually dwarf's most of the rest of this forums content unfortunately. I guess it's a secret that I've swept beneath the Archive carpet.

Code:
Current : Threads   774  Posts 53,157
===============================
Total   : Threads 7,454  Posts 298,880 and Rising

Free Thoughts only narrowly beats it.

13. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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How can we read the archives? I don't see access to them now that I am not mod.

14. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

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Check the Underlined link for the Religious Archives.

For all other archives, Click the Archives link that's listed above The Cesspool on the main forum page.

15. ### S.A.M.uniquely dreadfulValued Senior Member

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Thats strange I can access the archives link from your post. But its not visible from the Forum index

16. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

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It should be. I'm not suggesting it's a Link that looks like 'The Cesspool' but the actual 'Title' (With a Grey Background) for the bottom of the main forum.

17. ### PsychoticEpisodeIt is very dry in here todayValued Senior Member

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Have any ever tried to disrupt this forum by nefarious means, other than trolling? Any threats, i.e. computer virus implants or of the legal variety (court action)? How about trying to convert you or your colleagues?

18. ### TiassaLet us not launch the boat ...Staff Member

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Remembering FNS

We did have this one guy, once, who had an online ministry. He liked to come here, argue with people, then take selected excerpts back to his site to pretend he was accomplishing something useful by preaching to the infidels.

But, no. The most disruption that brought might have been measured by a slight increase in the number of zealots on the board, but nobody noticed at the time. Neither did I.

In all my time here, I don't recall any legalistic or terroristic attempts to bring down the site.

19. ### BenTheManDr. of Physics, Prof. of LoveValued Senior Member

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Mostly it's just not worth it, I'd imagine.

And, to be fair, one could just as well title this thread "Unwanted Religulous Solicitation", if you get my drift...

20. ### cosmictravelerBe kind to yourself always.Valued Senior Member

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32,137
Well let us look at the Native Americans for that answer. They lived here for over 20,000 years and were doing fine , keeping themselves fed, clothed, cared for and living in tribal communities without any form of religion. Then the white man came and showed them religion and look where they are today, they are all but wiped out because they wouldn't tolerate religion for to them it was a very bad thing that the white man was talking about love, respect , tolerance and a host of other kind loving things but then they murdered the tribes of Natives for no reason other than they were "different".