So you think Muslims should all form a united front to speak for all Muslims of the world? Like the Caliphate maybe? you don't prefer the current norm of most Muslims to live and let live? "..."douchebags don't get to shout fire without consequences." This is the norm of civilised society. And isn't that what you are proposing? That there should be consequences? Beware of what you want, for you may get it.
More coddling of nutters, I see. Don't suicide bomb me, bro! Examining the institutionalized targeting of black communities by the authorities would probably make a better case of how fucking racist America is. In many places, black is synonymous with criminal. Because the West is in conflict with Muslims, and vice-versa. Ignoring your enemy would be foolish. It's like asking "why pay special attention to Communists?" during the Cold War. America has done some bad things. OMG I SPOKE OUT AGAINST ONE OF MY SOCIAL GROUPS HALP!!
I'm sure you'll find many lone opinions on either side. But to ignore, for example, the obvious FACT that there were no suicide bombers in Lebanon/Palestine before Israel, in Iraq/Afghanistan before US, is to ignore the why of these acts of "terrorism". You cannot destroy a society and then gasp, wide eyed at the obvious consequences of such wholesale destruction. The Perspective is very different from Hell inside out. Unfortunately, overtures are usually ignored http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ders-halt-to-suicide-bomb-attacks-620876.html Even drastic conditions barely get more than a days attention Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Its the violence that gets people to pay attention. Rwanda and Darfur haven't even that luxury. They could all kill each other in their desperate conditions and no one would give a damn.
Only in the minds of people that want conflict. For the rest of us, we know this isnt true. Muslims are an integral part of, for example, liberal European democracy. Muslims hav become integral due to what they do as lawyers, doctors, teachers, professors, scholars, musicians, sportsmen, judges, other lawmakers, social leaders, analysts, economists etc etc. Like it or not, it wont change the fact that Muslims arent at war with the West, rather, they have become an integral part of it.
What does any of this have to do with killing people over cartoons? Muslims are also attempting to institute their own perverted since of justice in Western societies, or actively undermining it, or forming terror cells. There are active groups of Muslims who attack the West, perceive it as a West vs. Islam thing, and work towards their nefarious goals, and then their are Muslims, such as you and sam, who both acknowledge that such Muslims exist, then defend their actions. And now you pretend they don't exist. So which is it? That you're a backpeddling apologist or that you're a lying, sneaky religious nut? The conflict, in my opinion, arises largely from reactionary forces in the Middle East to Western meddling. Secular western governments have been more concerned over the resources buried beneath Middle Eastern sands than what religion the uncivilized inhabitants were practicing. The response in the ME has been a radicalization and militarization of Islam to resist foreign influence. Coupled with the fact that most of the ME is stuck in a fundamentalist, medieval mindset, as industrialization sort of passed them up due to stagnating empire and colonialization, you end up with people who flip out over cartoons and jews. The West doesn't want conflict. We just want you to lie their while we take your oil. It would sure be cheaper than a war in Afghanistan and Iraq and maybe Iran and Pakistan. Well, that's ignoring the military-industrial complex that always wants war. And also pretending it doesn't exert enormous influence in Western governments. And that the Israel lobby in America doesn't have any influence, and as a Christian nation, America doesn't want another Crusade. But other than that, please stop resisting occupation.
SAM is trying the old blame-game ...."America made them do it!!" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Baron Max
So among the Muslims there are people like you? Big surprise there. Muslims arent forcing their anything on the West. However, the US wants to force its baseball-and-pie democracy on the Muslims and other countries. What am I? I'm a Muslim living in the UK. I dont agree with your view of Islam and how Muslims want to take over the world and impose their will. And if you truly believed that was the case, you would provide actualy evidence, instead of, again, giving me 2 options that are phrased in such a way that no matter which I choose, I come out bad. Standard tactic. And my response will be the same: If thats the only option you give me, fuck you Read up on the numerous democratic and socialist governments of the Muslim countries before the US sponsored assassinations and regime changes and youll swallow those words. You want to see conflict everywhere. According to you theres this whole Islam v the West, which is BS.Your worldview is tainted because of those glasses.
Yeah, sure. Sorry, not interested in any swampland, thanks. Douchbages = anyone who criticizes Islam Civilized = anyone who doesn't criticize Islam
:thankyou: Douchebags = roman, baron max, otheadp Civilized = Michael, Ice etc At least in my opinion
Did you expect intellectual honesty? You're a Muslim. If you get to equivocate, I get to equivocate. Swallow what words, exactly? Read up on current events. You come from a shithole. Yeah, you're right. US, Canada, and Europe haven't invaded and occupied two Islamic countries while threatening to invade two more, while supporting Israel's bellicose stance towards its neighbors as the Islamic Middle Eastern countries rattle their sabers. The later half of the 20th century has all been a bad dream. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
What's funny about all of this is that Roman isn't denying wrong-doing on behalf of some Westerners. But naturally the Muslims on this thread respond to his criticisms of Islam with "OMG WHY CAN'T YOU ADMIT THAT THE WEST HAS CAUSED SHIT!?" like androids. Um, folks, *he's already made that admission*, your stock attempts to try and shift the focus from Muslim barbarism to his 'inability' to make such an admission have been nullifed. Roman has simply demonstrated the diseased and sick victimhood mentality prevalent amongst Muslims. Even when a critic of Islam admits that the West isn't a shining star, the Muslim STILL tries to act the apologist by portraying the critic as an ignoramus who can't see flaws with Western nations. Disgusting. It is exactly that sort of apologism amongst Muslims which demonstrates why attempting to reason with them is an exercise in futility. Those Muslims who think this way (and there are a significant number of them) are enemies of Western nations. They are just like the insurgents and terrorists, but lack the courage and strength of conviction to strap up. It's such a shame Western nations have become so decadent and politically correct that they attempt to censor anyone who points out this obvious truth.
Strange isn't it, when you think that such "wrong doing" has no effect on the victims. Whatever you may like to think, the victim is not equal to the oppressor, he is merely defined by the oppression. When people start blowing themselves up in unprecedented numbers in a society where suicide has been shunned for 1400 years, "the diseased and sick victimhood mentality" is not "prevalent among Muslims" its a real tragedy of the destruction of their societies. To blame them for that [when your troops are fricking sitting over there by the tens of thousands, dropping missiles left right and center on their families] is incredibly ignorant. It would be like discussing the number of DUIs on 9.11 and ignoring the victims of the WTC. Pathetic. "Yes we destroyed their country, but look! they are blowing themselves up, the barbarians!" Guess what? They've been Muslims for 1400 years, but they've been blowing themselves up since 2001. So put the cart behind the horse and see it for what it is.
Hoo boy, here we go. 'All Muslims are victims, they aren't responsible for their own actions. Waa waa waa, boo hoo hoo!' This is *precisely* why many Musliims are our enemy. They would blame the decadent West for every ill they have suffered, from the haemorrhoids on their ass to the bunions on Uncle Mohammed's toe, and then take revenge on it. And in your simplistic world, Muslim = victim, West (where West = anyone who is more progressive than your Muslim ilk) = oppressor. Again, this is why many Muslims are our enemy. Ahh, I see. The Muslim is nothing more than a dumb animal, a robot who makes decisions not based on free will, but on the 'inputs' of more civilised human beings. Interesting. Muslims have been killing and killing and killing and enslaving and oppressing since their barbaric and anti-everyone else religion came into existence. Now they simply lack the power, so are forced to resort to more crude methods in an attempt to harm the Great Satan. I blame your barbaric little friends for killing their own people. No Western nation holds a gun to their head and demand that they butcher their own people. And then Muslim apologists such as yourself attempt to blame such infighting on the West. Pathetic. Again, this is why many of you Muslims are our enemy. They destroyed their own country. There was no destruction in Afghanistan and Iraq until representatives of those nations attacked Western nations and their allies. I re-iterate what I said earlier: Muslims have been killing and killing and killing and enslaving and oppressing since their barbaric and anti-everyone else religion came into existence. Now they simply lack the power, so are forced to resort to more crude methods in an attempt to harm the Great Satan.
Muslims have been killing others and each other for millenia. And as I mentioned before, there was no invasion of Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and the implicit support of anti-Western terrorists and extremists in Islamic countries. Why don't you try putting the cart behind the horse, instead of attempting to justify the behaviour of your Muslim barbarian friends?
There were suicide bombers in Afghanistan before 9.11? One could argue that American intervention in Afghanistan began in the 80s when they imported extremists from 40 countries and supplied them with $2 billion dollars in arms.
