Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by Reiku, Mar 3, 2012.
I am not a coward, I have years of study behind me... what do you have?
Or will you coward out?
Shall I start then?
In many talks with individuals concerning the controversial subject of UFO's and their possible links to alien life, usually the arguer highlights the dubious cover-up tactics made by the US Government and agencies who are closely monitered beneath them i.e. NASA, many historical statements of official denial of the said subject is well-documented.
The ''official statement'' from the FBI for instance, in October 1973, by FBI director Clarence M. Kelly explained to an enquirer that ''the investigation into unidenified flying objects is not and has never been within the jurisdiction of the FBI.''
This is demonstratably false, and as you will see, it was only years later, in 1976 the FBI released some 1,100 documents and memorandums on UFO-related incidents, some being classified as ''beyond top secret''. It is this illegal culture of hiding evidence which concerns the public and which has the entire subject at the hands of conspiracy-mongers.
Since you are not willing... I am...
The truth however, as the real FBI-Files goes, is much more startling when you investigate the facts. It is from with this relatively short stage that I must implore the reader to reshape their usual sceptical nature towards the subject, that is, if you are indeed a sceptic of these objects in our airspace which are very much real.
On a similar investigation into cover-up tactics and denial, comes from a statement made by NASA in an information sheet, serial number 78-1, prepared by the LFF-3/Public services branch, office of external relations, NASA headquarters in washington, that ''NASA is not engaged in any type of research program involving UFO activity.''
However, contradictory to this rather straightforward statement, two pages from a NASA instruction kit: issued originally by Kurt Debus , Director of John F. Kennedy Space Center in June 1967, explains that UFO's are to be reported immediately to control, and that the outcome of the investigation with not be discussed with the caller.
So, in complete symmetry with the FBI's statement, there is submission of lies, on the grounds that there is more than sufficient evidence to suggest that both the government and the space agency have attempted to hide some kind of information which the public should be aware of. This information, however, as many have stated was withheld for the benefits of National Security; but can be seen as making a mockery of their own establishments and also done with the highest impunity. The more they hide the information (many beyond top secret files have yet to be released) the more tenebrous the conspiracy appears, and the more deluded the final opinion's of the public inexorably becomes.
One great cover-up story which is more or less a world-wide historical curiosity, was the incidents which happened near a Mexican Farm Ranch. The incident was appropriately dubbed the ''Roswell Incident'' and whilst there are many parts of it which could be covered in this document, very little of the incident itself will be covered. So let us get past that part first...
It was originally Military Officials who reported that they had in their possession the identity of what appeared to be saucer-shaped craft, but these original claims mysteriously dissipated, and the military then claimed it was nothing but an ''experimental balloon''. An overwhelming cascade of evidence suggests that this was nothing more that a cleverly-executed coverup, and further investigation into the incident is suggested for the reader if they wish to know more on the remarkable incidents which happened that day, including eye-wittnesses.
Then something strange happened, much more recently: In April 11, 2011, News that the FBI had just recently released secret information contained within a classified memo on the Roswell Incident hit the Daily Record and also the Sun paper agencies. The main thing to rememeber here, is that they reported it as though the information was new, and had never been seen before. For some reason, the FBI was trying to fabricate an elaborative memo as being something new - the reasons for this could be various, but the nature of the memo was for some reason, by the authority of the FBI being shown to the public again, and the reason behind that is more sinister I believe.
It was an office memorandum, dated march 22 1950, from Special Agent Guy Hottel to J. Edgar Hoover the FBI Director, which seemed to admit the existence of disks which where retrieved in new mexico during that momentous day. The momorandum which clearly punches holes into the military ''balloon'' explanation I suspect was released in 1976 along with the other 1,100-odd memos and documents, as this memorandum from the FBI which claims that saucers where recovered from the new mexico region was photo-copied in Timothy Good's book ''Beyond Top Secret'' and the copy of his book I had in my possession was made in the 1990's. So for some reason, the FBI felt the need to over-hype these relatively old documents and citing them as some kind of new release.
Could this be a matter of the FBI releasing an already released memo in hope of keeping the growing demand of UFO enthusiasts (the public) at bay? Or is there a more sinister reason behind such a psychological control?
It has been leaked by an official  that some of the information on UFO's, if not all information will be eventually released. Is this act by the FBI to prepare us for some greater paradigm shift in the secretive nature of the UFO phenom? It surely has been, since those deceptive words by the FBI that no such investigation went on into these bizarre cases that there has been an undeniable equidistant release of information on these subjects. You can speculate only so much on the evidence at hand, but there are very few alternatives to why the FBI is making headlines of information which was already known to the public. The nature of the memo is important too, because it's not just a ''sighting case'' - it's arguably the most famous case of the governments blatent history of lies with damning evidence that flying saucers are real. If the governement want's to gain attention, they have certainly made it, as it became a big news coverage over here in Britain.
The denial of the UFO Roswell Incident is easy to reconcile when you tale into consideration how classified the subject really is. Wilbert Smith in a Top Secret memomrandum is recorded stating that ''the matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States Governement , rating higher than even the H-Bomb.'' He also said that the investigation into UFO's would lead to a new technology, hence another main reason for classification.
Yes, the denial of all information on the UFO phenomenon is a culture inherent in all governements. What should be realized, however, that things are only concealed when there is something worth hiding. In this case, every governement is guilty for perpetuating a niave myth that UFO's are not real objects, and can be held to blame for the ignorance of the public.
Whatmore, then is now an overwhelming body of evidence which has been released by the FBI and other agencies which seem to indicate that these objects are not from this planet. Frivolous denial of the subject might lead to a nation not ready for such an extraplanatery confrontation - whether that be a direct meeting with peace at mind, or whether they are hostile, in which case, if they are, we can logically assume they are much more advanced than us in technological capabilities.
 - Senator Barry Goldwaters comments on the validity of the gradual release of information to the public in a letter to Shlomo Arnon in March 1975.
The Great Secrecy and Physical Evidence
It is said that there are many objects floating in space, just outside our sphere alone, and that many UFO's are most likely answerable by these objects. But as most professionals who study this field are more than aware, that the Government has a system which knows exactly where these objects are and should be. Knowing this is a matter of security. So with this in mind, how can NASA explain away so many video evidence's? Indeed, what about STS-videos where the integrity of the video cannot be refuted and real objects are in view which takes in all conventional pictures of UFO's (saucer-shaped and metallic)? Indeed, if there where such objects out there, even close to our airspace, surely astronauts have seen things?
It seems many astronauts on the pay-roll of NASA will very readily ridicule the subject, and say that all UFO's are explainable - however, if this is the true case at hand, then NASA has nothing to worry about, and any investigation into UFO's would be deemed as unecessery and redundant and nothing but a waste of valuable money?
Well, one NASA test pilot called Joseph Walker who test flew the rocket-powered X-15 planes revealed it was one of his duties to look for UFO's and even take pictures of them. So if the phenomenon is one which is not real, which NASA would have you believe, why have someone under you represent the dedication of looking into such objects? This is is just one of a few astronauts who have came forward and admitted seeing UFO's. Gorden Cooper is one of them. There was also a sighting upon the Apollo space 11 mission.
One interesting case in close relation to the controversial STS-NASA tapes, Scott Carpenter, a former US Navy test pilot, intelligence officer and astronaut claims he had seen UFO's on the Mercury 7 flight on may 24th 1962. It is said that Carpenter later denied this, but in a transcript of Lovell's Flight on Gemini 7, an object was in fact encountered. It was suggested what they saw was just debris from the Launching of the Gemini 7, but Franklin Roach of the University of Colarado stated this would be impossible if they had been travelling in polar orbit (which they were) - so some strange coverup of the incident can clearly be seen in progress.
Why so much secrecy among astronauts? One explanation comes from Maurice Chatelain, a former NASA communications specialist who says that all Apollo and Gemini flights had been closely monitered by UFO's, but the mission was sworn to absolute secrecy. This secrecy should be well known now among Ufologists, as there is even confirmation from important documents now which cast substantial doubt on the NASA ideologies and methodologies. 
Even if one wants to ignore the NASA instruction kit telling their workers to report UFO's, or ignore the letter to NASA by Colonel Charles Senn (see ) then you can surely question Maurice Chatelain, but you do so at cost of arguing against a man with a very substantial background of crudentials. He specializes in telecommunications, telemetry and radar systems and in 1959 was in charge of a research group devoloping state-of-the-art radar and telecommunications for RYAN.
It has been highlighted by professionals in their field that UFO's would lead to a new technology. Wilbert Smith a senior radio engineer who worked in secret defense projects, and who corrolated with Dr. Vannevar Bush who was the presidential scientific advisor in 1947, was elected head of a top-secret investigative panel of scientists, a project by the name of ''project magnet'' - his team was to investigate the possibility of advancing propulsion systems based on magnetic principles. Smith is reported as saying:
''Whether the phenomenae be due to Natural Magnetic Causes, or Alien Vehicles, there would probably be associated with some sighting some magnetic or radio noise disturbance. Also there is a possibility of gamma radiation being associated.''
Not to mention, UFO's have been caught on radar, so refuting their physical corporeal existences can be easily disproven. In an interim on project magnet, Smith Concluded:
''If it appears evident, the flying saucers are emissaries from some other civilization, and actually do operate on magnetic principles, we have us before the fact that we have missed something in magnetic theory.''
Smith was a very prominent investigator into the UFO phenomenon, and in 1960 reported that he and his scientists had came into posession of what was alleged a peice of a flying saucer:
''We have done a tremendous amount of detective work on this metal... we have something which was not brought here by plane, nor by boat, nor by helocopter... we are speculating that we are in posession of a portion of a much larger device which came into this solar system - we don't know when, but it has been in space for a long time. We can tell this by the micrometeorites embedded in the surface.''
The documents however which can prove Wilbert Smiths claims, are unfortunately still kept by some government force; the release of the documents on his project have yet to be declassified. Their work is most likely in the hands of the department of transport, or since then, has been moved to some higher agency. We will end this part with Wilbert Smiths comments, from project magnet;
''UFO's exhibited a technology considerably advanced than our own.''
 In a letter to NASA by Colonel Charles Senn, is a response to president Carters hopes to unleashing vital information on UFO activity. He states in his letter that ''he sincerely hope you are successful in preventing a reopening of UFO investigations.''
There are even documented cases of these objects pervading US airspace which have amazingly avoided interception in full public view. The best case of this is the Washington case, when UFO's glided over the white house and penetrated US air defense systems.
Everytime the modern day technology went to shoot them down, they evaided interception.
Jdawg... you are no match for a boy who did their school homework
Here are actual pictures of them doing so, fantastic isn't it?
cut and paste passes for homework
Even Gustav burned you, Reiku.
You have opted out... COWARD I CALL YOU!
You called me a Coward, you said I wasn't putting up. I put up, and what is your response?
You put me on ignore. HAHAHAHAHAHA
I think anyone can measure up the facts of what is happening here. Jdawg was out of his league.
Well, what else was I going to do?
Work on thin air :bugeye:
Reiku has been eliminated.
Cosmic is "leaving", probably with an alien ray gun pointed at his head.
They were getting too close to the truth about UFOs.
Someone else must take over.
Someone unafraid of the visitors.
Someone like Pincho Paxton.
Firstly, this thread has not proceeded according to the rules for this sub-forum.
Standard rules for debates
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Secondly, Reiku has been permanently banned. (Thank God!!!)
Therefore, there is no reason to leave this debate proposal open.
Proposal for debate denied.
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