tony1, Sir Loone, and anyone else that wants to chime in.

Whatever you say, KalvinB

Um ... in which half of which post did you last have a point? Seriously: What is your problem, KalvinB?

Well, it was a pretty desperate line for you. I mean really, all you do is sit and fling accusations. I even went to the point of documenting the problem I have with Tony1 and neither you--who plays his henchman--nor Tony1 have given it much consideration. To turn a phrase: Course you wouldn't. If you want to whine and moan, you should pick other subjects to do so about. With your prior complaints it seemed to boil down to people not asking the question in a way that allows your standard answer to be correct. Here it seems to be ... what? That I'm calling you out on your hypocrisy? That I'm calling you out on your crappy attitude problem which you promote as Christian? Hey, think of me as playing my own victim if you want; I'm a pagan and therefore a savage, right? What more do you expect of us? You, on the other hand, are a Christian, or at least you seem to claim to be. We're not sure: you spend most of your time devising a faith that makes salvation real easy or else complain. Your attitude and your lack of any substantive argument seem to prove Crowley right: Do what thou wilt. Apparently, it's well enough to believe that Jesus will save you. In the meantime, what, it's well enough to be so rude and aggressive that even the lowly savages are offended? What in the hell is your problem, KalvinB?

Are you upset because someone noticed when you hypocritically admonished Taken for not being more patient and understanding in her attempts to communicate with Tony1? The very patience and understanding you refuse to afford Godless or Elbaz? You've admitted that you don't care for the compassionate route: What else would you like to throw out of your Christian book?

What other parts of integrity, compassion, or temperance prescribed in the Bible really annoy you? Go on, just throw them out. Oh! You already have ....

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How you feel and what you think truly are your own convictions. But do you realize that by your conduct you are demonstrating that the very message you promote doesn't work?

Did you want to show me then where you did answer the question and did not change the subject?

What rebellion?

To the other, it's not quite that at all: Tony1 feels disrespect toward others is the best policy. I'm quite sick of it. The irony that he thinks he's pushing Christianity, in any sense, is about as funny as a "nigger" joke.

Well, if I blamed Tony1, I might not be far from the truth. You gotta admit: he's accusatory, supremacist, and his duty is to chase people away from salvation.

Would you like examples? Accusatory? How about how many of us are, uh, "possessed", so that he conveniently has to give no real thought to actually answering the issue? Supremacist? Did he not cite Luke to show his duty to crush his enemies? And it was his own declaration that his religion chased people away from God. Since you're so aware of his, uh, valor, I'm sure you've read those posts. Don't be a contrary cuss and make me dig it up: you'd just be admitting that you have no idea what you're talking about.

After several months of his littering topics with this kind of crap I'm just sick of it. He doesn't want to be taken seriously, and that's fine. But I'm going to remind people not to take him seriously because as you've noticed, he tends to frustrate people at least a little. That frustration will abate if people regard him as the joke he aspires to be.

What evidence? That research isn't finished? Just because the perfect knowledge of God isn't supposed to change doesn't mean we're finished learning about the Universe. If an unfinished process is a failed process, then why bother doing anything that's not finished before you start?

While it's true this isn't up to your Godless standard, it's getting pretty ridiculous watching you be a hypocritical nut. And add to that the one I've known was coming: your failure to treat with equal scorn a Christian poster requesting more data than you would be willing to give. It's not just, uh ... one issue at a time ... is it? So where's the cussing and excoriation, KalvinB? Oh, since he's Christian, he has license to do what you forbid?

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Good for you. I like to think that's what we're all trying to do here. To the other, then, I'm wondering what you're seeing and what you're choosing to ignore. I mean, you have some problem with my issues with Tony1's conduct. Since you're reading all his posts and you understand so fluently his posting history, I'm surprised that you haven't considered his evasions, accusations, condemnations, and his silly declarations like chasing people away from redemption. Of course, you seem to be taking the evasive, accusatory, condemning stance yourself, so I admit that I'm prepared for the fact that you just don't see them.

What part of that to respond to, first? Dignity suggests perhaps ignoring the whole thing for its pettiness, but since this is an online forum, and since we're well about being petty for the time being:

* Books? What, are my posts too long for you to understand? Perhaps you should get some help understanding them, then, before you decide what they mean. Books?

* Days at a time? Since Tony1's spite is a daily disruption, I've been happy to undertake it. You, on the other hand, I think are what Tony1 fears. He rarely identifies his faith in an affirmative light: typically it's by what he doesn't believe or what he thinks he isn't. You seem to be more willing to present yourself affirmatively: why affirm hypocrisy? Repeatedly? Willfully? So proudly and triumphantly? And yes, you're at it daily.

* Mean person? Tony1 is proud of his spite. He holds it up as a mandate from God. He abuses and frustrates posters daily; why not remind them that this is what the Bible has made of him?

But since you're whining about it, I'll even take a swing at the even more profoundly useless portion of your prior post that seems so important to you:

I'm pretty consistent in my approach and am not bound by the same rules you are. Hey, it's your choice to be a Christian. If you want to stomp around and be rude all the time, be an atheist. Nobody will appreciate your attitude any better, but with the removal of your Christian obligations and the cessation of your Christian advocacy, at least you wouldn't be a hypocrite. And your fellow atheists would think equally little of your contemptuous attitude, incidentally. Anyone is entitled to be anything they want to be. The only reason Chrisitans are any more accountable on any issues arise when the Christian is bound by faith to be more accountable. Your hostility toward the least of your brethren is starting to resemble Tony1's. The compassion you withhold, as well.

And to cover the other principle: since you're so fluent in Tony1's history, how much more patience do I owe him while waiting for him to treat his fellow posters decently? Integrity? How long should I so rudely assume that being polite or less direct makes any sense to people? The religious debates here actually used to be about religion. I will happily and without reservation place the burden of that shift onto Tony1. Of course, since you're so well-read in his multitude of posts and, presumably, mine, perhaps you can explain his constant retreat from history back in March, and why by his second post (in mid-February) he's establishing his pattern of picking digressive and nonexistant issues, as well as fundamentally distrusting the poster he's responding to in order to avoid giving credit to the issues. It's amazing. It hasn't changed in nine months, KalvinB.

Are you unaware of this lasting evasion, cowardice, and spite on his part, or do you subscribe to it? Think before you answer, and consider the examples you've put before us. In other words, do you really know the posting history you're defending? Or is that why one's history isn't important, or however that was phrased? I'm sorry, KalvinB, but you're just not one to say jack effing squat about integrity. Are you truly unaware of Tony1's conduct, or do you approve of it? Is it that you haven't actually read the posting history you're involving yourself with, or that you share his need for triumph?

Never really had to. I was pretty much able to remind people to not get to cussing Tony1 out, for instance, since it did no real good. But after a while, I'm inclined to let people respond in their own way to Tony1's crap. And when someone does tweak my mood enough to dress up in my attitude problem, you'll notice that I can usually tell them why I'm upset. As you noted, these posts run too long for your patience, or is it your capability? Your need to reduce something to the least number of terms, while lite like cheap beer, has the effect of being less precise.

Not all of 'em. But since "Christianity" constitutes a pretty damn big voting majority in the world, it would be nice if the people who lure converts to their camp with tales of compassion and wisdom would show it once in a while. When your philosophy centers around redemption, you tend to think of yourself in your decisions. And yes, history does show that.

Is that enough? Or are there any words I missed from that poor, ignored post? Now, here's a little piece you seem to have ignored, which I will now remind you of:

Show me what you're talking about; I might even be able to tell you what you've missed in the equation.

--Tiassa

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"What is your problem, KalvinB?"

Basically I just want the bitching to stop on all sides. You can't stop moaing and complaining about how horrible the Christians are acting. Tony can't stop tossing insults and neither can you and pretty much everyone else.

My point of taking up Tony's defense was to see if Taken really had any points against him or if it's just misunderstandings. Insteading of judgeing Tony strictly by what she saw first hand, she also decided to dig into the past and then assumed that Tony couldn't change. Just like you. It was one day to "I don't want to debate anymore" and a couple more to "I don't think you're really saved." That's not trying at all. Apparently Taken already "knows" Tony so there's nothing more to discuss.

If you want to keep complaining and pointing out character flaws have at it. I don't expect any better. It's been pretty much the norm for you since I got here.

Because I'm criticizing you, I'm sure this will be labeled either a tantrum or whining because otherwise you might actually have to take into consideration what I say as accurate and it's quite apparent that "accuracy" is limited only to you and those who agree with you.

I play devil's advocate for Tony because Taken became so critical so quickly and suddenly I'm his henchman. That's um... insightful of you.

This discussion had nothing to do with you until you dragged your dead horse into the ring. I was hoping that maybe...just maybe...Tony could have a chance to change his ways (as apparently you've missed, I've tried to do myself) and you could finally bury that dead horse of yours.

It's nice to know that we have you to drag the dead horses wherever we go. You want the Christians to better themselves but you can't let the past die.

"What in the hell is your problem, KalvinB?"

All you do is complain. You never actually do anything. You join in the little insult games and then when you've had enough fall down and play victim and post your memoirs of the time Tony verbally assulted you. Over and over and over again.

It's not like you've actually taken the time to just give a simple "what was the point of that?" or "how did you arrive at that conclusion?" Or here's an odd concept...ignore it. Stick to the real issue. With you it's always a long drawn out song and dance which benfits no one.

Ben

 

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Godless plays judge....

Well what a fine pice of literature, from both sides of the spectrum.

Tiassa your points are well constructed, and given plenty of thought, however I've got to agree with KalvinB, though and mind you i don't forget the past easily either, but arguing back and forth is not covering the issue of this post.

We must, we've got to a least try, and not let Tony1's post deviate what the issue is about. LOL, it sounds funny because I've realized that i'm guilty at this myself.

A reminder "quote" Patman: **tony1, Sir Loone, and anyone else that wants to chime in.
Big dilemma. I understand that a donation to the church that you attend is necessary for them to continue there service. But if you don't mind can you tell me why they ask for a percentage of your pay and give a chart listed by annual income to tell you how much you should give? If you can please remind me of how Jesus was a humble, non-materialistic servant of god. Please feel free to Quote pro's and con's from either perspective.

Your help in this matter would be welcome.

As a good friend of mine put it "faith does not = money, money does not = faith."

What do you think about these people trying to buy their way into heaven?


__________________
FREE PUPPIES:
PART GERMAN SHEPHERD
PART STUPID DOG **

I realized something, Patman has not come back and posted on his own topic, he probably gave up as he watch everyone here argue there point, then start accusing one another. No i didn't waste my time reading every single post of this thread it should be ovious by looking at the last few posts. We've actually have strayed from the topic by at least several miles.

The church is a business, it's only there to make money of the gullible!!! that's my opinion!, when do you see a priest in this country US living in poverty?. rarely, and if he is he's just starting out, how about televangelists?, why are they so sticking rich, and they don't pay (taxes)!

I've got to go, and earn my living!! bye

 

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GOD is still GOD!

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We still are in need of a GOD that can hear and answer prayers! And GOD of Abraham is the only one that can hear us! Jesus is still the only way folks! And you will all need Him on a personal basses some day soon! Warning you, you will!

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Should I simplify it the way I simplified it for Tony1?

Funny, didn't I note that not too long ago? Didn't you ignore it? Are you going to stop bitching? Are you going to give posters respect instead of resorting to the kind of disgraceful crap you've been about lately.

Would you buy a Ferrari from a guy driving a Yugo? You are acting horribly. It's not so bad in and of itself, but I wonder who these people are stomping through the forum making such a bad Christian example. Apparently, the new Christian philosophy is, "We don't need no stinking cheeks." For all the lure of Christian mercy and compassion, you're not living up to any of it. I feel like you're showing me a bicycle while trying to sell me a car, telling me that if I just say, Vroom! and push the pedals fast enough, I can race a Porsche through the mountains.

Well, since you ignore most of people's actual points, I find this an inadequate answer. Taken has made legitimate points; I just don't think you're reading her posts any more closely than you seem to be reading Tony1's or mine.

Well, that should show you two things: that Tony1's disrespect annoys people quickly, and that I'm not the only one who thinks his smarmy bits about salvation are beyond irony. Telling someone that they aren't really saved is, if correct, the Christian thing to do. Since Tony1 does unto his brethren so poorly, I don't think Taken is out of line noting that his salvation isn't established, and by his conduct is in doubt. We'll all just lie to you, eh? I suppose it would be more respectful? Just like for Taken the Christian thing to do would be to ignore Tony1 and leave him wandering about in his abusive, misguided universe?

That's why history's not important to you? Because as Taken reads more and more of the history she's commenting on, she's seeing the same trends I and others see? Yeah, if we treat history that way, we shouldn't fear fundamentalist Muslims with nukes: we'd only be worrying about their historical performance with weapons and not trusting their faith in God.

Oh, please, KalvinB, you ought to know better than to use a line you wouldn't accept. Why don't you go back and read through February and March, and instead of just huffing and telling me I'm wrong, show me? Is it too much work? Are the posts too long? Are there too many issues? Are you just lazy? Why, then, are you bothering with this defense?

No, I'll label it a tantrum because it's nothing more than pale justifications and silly accusations without a shred of effort to support your position.

Tony1 can do his own defending when he feels like it. What, does he pay you to mount his defense? If he takes topics seriously and treats people respectfully, we'll give him that credibility. And I'm preparing to apply the same standard to you. But since you were playing Devil's advocate, did you realize how hypocritical you were being? The fact that you comment none on this aspect while continually complaining without really giving any evidence of what you're complaining about pretty much tells us what we need to know about your self-righteousness.

I only pointed it out. It's the horse you rode in on. And, uh ... the discussion had nothing to do with you, either, until you carried your own grudge against Godless into the forum on 11/6. All I'm after here is your naked hypocrisy and what that tells us about the integrity of a Christian. So why don't you do a documentation of how you see this discussion that has nothing to do with either of us, and maybe I'll have a better understanding of your perspective than you're offering right now. You don't know until you try, and you really haven't tried.

Um ... the past becomes less significant when it ceases defining current trends.

What would you recommend, then? Leaving Tony1 to comment and abuse people at will without ever mentioning anything? Fine. And I'll give you that, too, if you really want. Remember that a Christian is the best debater in a room when nobody else is around to debate.

What, sir, would you recommend? Deeper considerations aren't given any real thought by most of the Christians at this board.

Wow, you really haven't read Tony1's posting history, and therefore mine as relates to his. Kalvinb, understand that Tony1 has had nine months to tell us how he arrived at that conclusion. Repeatedly, his standard has been that it's what he believes and that's good enough. If he would like to tell us the foundation of those beliefs, he's been more than welcome to for nine effing months. Your point is useless and stupid because it demonstrates that you haven't the knowledge you claim. You're defending Tony1's posts while aggressively showing you haven't read them. I mean, you do argue the Christian point; I owe it to you at least to assume that you're not a flat liar, right?

These days, I admit a good portion of my posts are aimed at you and Tony1, which renders them essentially useless. I suppose I could point out the inherent failure of the faith you prescribe, that failure manifest in your posts, and leave it as simply as that. You don't seem to understand the simple ones, either. But, given your poor and combative attitude toward topics of late, not to mention your open, partisan hypocrisy, I'm not surprised at that.

I suppose it would be worth my while to move on to more useful subjects, but it's worth it to see if you're capable of seeing how FoS you are being with your aggression.

I suppose it's worth asking: Are you actually a Christian, or do you just have a personal interest in its supremacy?

It might clear up a lot.

And if the answer is that Yes, you are a Christian, then it would be worth simplifying it the way I did with Tony1: How seriously do you expect me to take you?

later,
Tiassa

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You're no better than those you accuse. It's as simple as that.

You don't need a book to see that. Let it go and move on.

Ben

 

Understood ...

But you can't provide the documentation?

Ah, you refuse to.

Well enough.

However you ignored two vital questions:

* Are you actually a Christian, or do you just have a personal interest in its supremacy?

* How seriously do you expect me to take you?

Or should I simply accept your refusal to answer those questions and, uh ... move on?

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,
Tiassa

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Re: GOD is still GOD!

Can't we just avoid Tony1's post, as easily as we avoid dealing with this Looooone??!!!.

 

We're working on it ...

Godless:

We're all working on it. Tony1 has demonstrated that he doesn't want to be taken seriously, which frees up some time to think about the more worthwhile topics and posts occurring. And KalvinB and I should be wrapping up quickly; there's just a couple of answers I'm waiting for, and then he and I can quit the sniping over Tony1's posts ...

I have to admit, Loone made it real easy for us to write him off. Tony1 never really got off the ground, and now that I'm saying it--nine months, it seems quite ridiculous that it took me so long to just spell it out and ask him how seriously we should take him. Seems to have resolved itself. KalvinB ... as soon as he provides me a couple of answers, I can be done with the current fight: it's not going to drag out for another nine months. But, you know ... Loone is just an annoyance, and that makes it really easy to avoid. Tony1 pollutes as many topics as he can get his forked tongue into and it's not like we all aren't aware of what my problem is with KalvinB. It's a little tougher to ignore those two, but I'm learning. In the end, it seems these people would rather we regard their personas as jokes, so it's well worth our while to consider your advice, Godless.

thanx,
Tiassas

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"Tony1 pollutes as many topics as he can get his forked tongue into..."

You just don't get it do you?

This whole discussion is about removing the snide comments and the personal attacks from posts and there you go again. You wanted documentation...there you have it.

Demanding respect is the lowest form of groveling. It's not necessary to have the respect of everyone to be a respectable person.

Ben

 

Now you need to demonstrate it

So that's your chosen statement? Now, demonstrate that it's untrue.

I'm tempted to ask if that's based on the experience of constantly demanding respect. If I consider your point invalid, it's not because it's untrue, but because it's pointless when coming from someone with your posting history.

KalvinB, all I want of this fight is to know that you're capable of reflecting on your faults as well as your glories. For all the abuse you give people, and for all the hypocritical pleas for peace you undertake, I really do wish you would educate yourself about the issues you've chosen to addresss. Short of that, however, let's try fundamental questions:

* Are you aware of your hypocritical approach? Are you aware that you are specifically condemning a practice you have engaged and defended as proper? Are you aware of how often you do it?

Let's try another one:

* Considering that the thickest part of our ongoing fight is over how one regards Tony1, why do you defend someone who doesn't want to be taken seriously?

Or how about this:

* What would you like me to think when you spend your time defending Tony1 while demonstrating by your own words that you don't understand the situation you're examining?

thanx,
Tiassa

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In the now immortal words of George Harrison...

While my guitar gently weeps...

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend. I have always thought that it's a crime. So I will ask you once again. Try to see it my way...

All you need is love...

 

*Originally posted by Taken
Since when does "prosperty" have to be measured in dollars?*

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
(Ecclesiastes 10:19, KJV).

All things.

*I do not take offense to Tony singularly as one person...as much as I do to his methods which represent a large portion of Christians.*

Who says they are my methods?

*Originally posted by KalvinB
Tony uses verses to condemn people but he makes an effort to support his accusations.*

Verses can't be used for that, otherwise the word of God is condemnatory.

*Originally posted by tiassa
Tony1's posting difficulties are pointed out all over this site. *

What posting difficulties?
I don't have any difficulty posting.

*What, is Taken obliged to spend the most part of a year failing to get any genuine answer from Tony1 in order to verify what is becoming so starkly clear so quickly?*

S/he probably doesn't use anywhere near the quantity of drugs you do.
On second thought, given his/her rants, maybe s/he does.

*Originally posted by Taken
That countrys with out majority Christians are desert wastelands. ....2/3 of his posts speak of or elude to a Christians (usually his) superiority or power.*

While I appreciate the detailed study you've made of my posts, do you think you might consider actually doing something other than simply ranting?
If you disagree with something, how about reading the Bible, or perhaps indicating why you might disagree or something.
Just quoting and stating that you disagree doesn't do much other than build a huge load of bitterness within you, something like tiassa has.

*He rarely speaks of Gods haveing done anything except judge, condemn, burn, destroy.*

So it is a problem for you when I quote the Bible?

*Lets talk now about the Indians who killed "themselves", not in any way affiliated with the injustice of Christian settlement of the US:
They lived semi-peacefully, not slaughtering each other: *

A couple of questions...
1. Why were the Indians nowhere near as civilized as the Europeans who arrived here?
2. They had the entire North and South American continents to themselves. Why were there so few Indians?

*Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally.*

tiassa isn't "most people." He's developed a whole new dimension of pot consumption.

*He answered the questions of the people giving them answers not avoided them.*

Of course, it was the people who avoided asking him questions.

And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
(Luke 20:40, KJV).

*...demons...blah, blah...*

Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
(Matthew 10:8, KJV).

*The word love is mentioned 505 times in the Bible!*

The words "gold," "silver" and "money" are mentioned a combined 835 times in the Bible!

*Originally posted by tiassa
Again you go complaining that people don't write what you like. Everyone's a critic .*

Not everyone is like you.

*I even went to the point of documenting the problem I have with Tony1*

So?

*...daily...*

Cris posted an entire thread complaining that I generally only post once a week.

*I'm inclined to let people respond in their own way to Tony1*

Some inclination.
Have you ever consider actually following the inclination?

*I admit a good portion of my posts are aimed at you and Tony1, which renders them essentially useless.*

Relax.
They'd be pretty much useless, whether aimed or not.

*Originally posted by KalvinB
Demanding respect is the lowest form of groveling.*

tiassa grovels a lot.

*Originally posted by blonde_cupid
Try to see it my way... *

Yes, try.
Maybe you'll see what the problem is.

 

tony1,

The problem can be viewed from a number of different perspectives. Anyway you look at it, it is not insurmountable. Most likely, everyone involved knows what needs to be done to solve the problem. One way to put it is: Understand, forgive, be forgiven, reach out gently and resist the temptation to backslide in the future.

There could be a couple of backslides but, more than likely, everyone involved is capable of doing better in their relationships. The big questions are:

Is everyone ready?

Is everyone willing?

 

I've done it again....

I posted to Tony0, it was a dirrect coment in another thread.

It's hard to avoid, as we do the Loone, for I think that Tony1's posts are not as rediculous as Loone's are!!, however it's the sarcasm of his posts, that makes one want to answer his snibling little remarks, apparently giving no answer to questions asked, only avoiding issues, and smirking every argument with his arrogance and omniscience of bible quotes!!.

Tony1 has his reference book by the computer, odd! it is that he keeps such an ancient rediculous manuscript, by the technological, scientific creation of man! the computer. It makes no sence as he sits there in front of his machine, condems men using mens creation!!. A hypocrite!! Argue that you hipocrite!

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Anyhow, that's that!! Tony1 have a Merry Christmas, today is the first day of December!, Keep in mind my posts are really not against you, the persona!! but of your posts & beliefs, apart from that! hey!! you just may be a swell guy!

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( just as long as you'r not chasing everyone with a bible under your arms)

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"While I appreciate the detailed study you've made of my posts, do you think you might consider actually doing something other than simply ranting?
If you disagree with something, how about reading the Bible, or perhaps indicating why you might disagree or something.
Just quoting and stating that you disagree doesn't do much other than build a huge load of bitterness within you, something like tiassa has."



Well gees Tony, I seem to recal following my statements with some very long posts that disagreed and provided some reliable facts in opposition. But you wouldn't know that unless you actually read the thread, instead of picking out the statements that suit your case. Much the same way you read the Bible.

 

*Originally posted by blonde_cupid
One way to put it is: Understand, forgive, be forgiven, reach out gently and resist the temptation to backslide in the future. *

Thanks for proving my point.

Rather than trying to see it my way, you decided that it was easier to try to get me to see it your way.
Giving me a list of instructions is hardly trying to see it my way.
Remember it was your idea to try to see it the other guy's way.
It's a little tougher than it sounds, isn't it?

*Originally posted by Godless
Argue that you hipocrite!*

I'll see what I can do.

Your mother wears army boots.

How's that?

*Keep in mind my posts are really not against you, the persona!! but of your posts & beliefs, apart from that! hey!! you just may be a swell guy!*

Too bad more people don't realize that's the way it is on a message board.

*Originally posted by Taken
I seem to recal following my statements with some very long posts that disagreed and provided some reliable facts in opposition.*

I guess the trick is to have the facts actually related to the issue.
Take your Indian thing.
The fact is that Indian civilizations were nowhere near as advanced as European civilizations.
The fact is that each feather in an Indian headdress meant another Indian was dead.
In most civilized countries, we don't revere killers, we punish them.

While you did present facts, your facts had nothing to do with the murderous nature of Indian societies.

*But you wouldn't know that unless you actually read the thread, instead of picking out the statements that suit your case.*

OK, tiassa Jr.

This looks like another one of those "you didn't read my post. Well, OK you did read it, but you just picked out stuff to suit yourself. Well, OK you didn't just pick out stuff, but you slogged through it. Well, OK you didn't slog through it, but etc. etc."

How exactly do you think it is possible to just "pick out" statements without reading your post?

 

Oooooh, so you do hold that Anglo Saxon Protestant of old theory that Indians were savages and in need of our leadership. We had not only a right but a DUTY to invade THEIR homeland and civalize tham. Oh yes there were so few of them, and we of course have what? Increased their numbers? We are not Isreal, and I don't recall a decree for us to take their land and kill all that breathed. But if we kill it is justified, God forbid that they are justified in killing. NO, You gotta be a Christian to kill with justification! Get a grip. How old are you? You are a complete fool Tony? You aren't a mockery to God or Jesus teachings, for that you would have to be associated with the two. You are a mockery to yourself and you gracefully expound in your own ignorance. For to whom much is given much will be required, and since you stake claim to recieving no forgiveness and mercy than I suppose you are required to have none on others.

 

*Originally posted by Taken
We had not only a right but a DUTY to invade THEIR homeland and civalize tham.*

Well, if you say it's THEIR homeland, then where are you going to move to?
Shouldn't you leave and let them have it back?

*Oh yes there were so few of them, and we of course have what? Increased their numbers?*

They haven't been killing each other in the same numbers lately, so I'd have to say yes.

*We are not Isreal, and I don't recall a decree for us to take their land and kill all that breathed. But if we kill it is justified, God forbid that they are justified in killing. NO, You gotta be a Christian to kill with justification! Get a grip. How old are you? You are a complete fool Tony? You aren't a mockery to God or Jesus teachings, for that you would have to be associated with the two. You are a mockery to yourself and you gracefully expound in your own ignorance. For to whom much is given much will be required, and since you stake claim to recieving no forgiveness and mercy than I suppose you are required to have none on others. *

I take it you disagree with something I said?

 

Well actually my fathers family was from Wales....but I have never been there. I am here by no act of my own. But I will never take for granet that a LOT of people died for me to be here with the freedoms I now hold so dear. The first who died for my freedoms were the Native Americans. Not of their own choseing, and God forbid that I ever hold myself in esteem above their lives that were taken with out justification.


By the way Tony, trace your roots. It would seem those on the European continent aren't exactly living under supression or dictatorship. England, France, and the UK are not only blooming with individual freedom but harbor little racial or religouse prejudice these days. The US can't say that. Perhaps our forefathers should have hung out a bit and made a claim in their own lands, instead of running from the challenge.