to vacinate or not to vacinate

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Asguard, Apr 26, 2009.

?

manditory vacination?

  1. yes

    63.2%
  2. no

    31.6%
  3. other

    2.6%
  4. dont care

    2.6%
  1. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    so the debate is on again like always. should vacinating children be manditory. ovioulsly there is a percentage of the population cant be cacinated because of allergies but that is quite a small percentage. for the rest of us who arnt allergic vacinating both ourselves and our children protects not only ourselves but other people as well including that group who cant vacinate and those who it doesnt work on.

    we managed to wipe out smallpox but polio, TB and woping cough continue to exist because vacination rates are not high enough.
     
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  3. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Vaccination is the ultimate expression of Hoemopathic principles anyway :3
     
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  5. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    trippy i would love to see how you justify that statement

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  7. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    I think hep and tetnus shots are pretty important. I'm not sure I want my child having the full DPT set as I was so violently allergic that I had a seizure at age 2. Not that any people die from whooping cough in America. It's not a disease that really ruins your life.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    takandjive

    compleatly wrong, if kids arnt dying from it thats only because of vacinations. it used to kill hundreds (or more and rember smaller population) before vacinations existed for it. further more kids are dying NOW from it and there is no treatments. the reason for the timing of this thread was an artical on the channel 7 news program tonight by the parents of a baby who died 2 weeks before her vacinations and the queensland peaditriction who treated her and runs the unit.

    these diseses shouldnt exist anymore, its not just yourself and your oen children at risk. your not even just putting people who cant be vacinated because of allergies at risk, your putting the most vulnerable at risk, the cancer pts, the newborns, the organ recipiants, the HIV positive and others
     
  9. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not sure, given that the vaccine for whooping cough almost killed me and it's a fairly innocuous disease, that if I found out there was a good chance my child would have the same reaction I had, that I'd get it for her/him. I don't want to put innocent people at risk, but if I have an update on my DPT shot, I'll probably die. My point is, I want my medical history reviewed before they shoot up and kill my future child because it was mandatory.
     
  10. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    im not suggesting that if someone has a high risk of anaphaxis they should be forced to have it and die. most people ARNT alergic though and its NOT a "fairly innocuous disease". better everyone else is vacinated as that would also protect YOUR child
     
  11. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    2,361
    Isn't the main problem with whooping cough what it spawns into, not what it is?

    My point was, I go through a big pain in the ass here in America to explain why I don't have certain shots. When I apply for certain jobs or go certain places, it's a big song and dance number. So I think closer attention needs to be paid by medical staff in explaining why and reviewing whether or not someone even should receive a shot.
     
  12. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Worldwide, there are 10–90 million pertussis cases and about 600,000 deaths per year. Despite generally high coverage with the DTP and DTaP vaccines, pertussis is one of the leading causes of vaccine-preventable deaths world-wide. Sixty percent of all cases occur in the Third World. Canada is the only rich, industrial nation in which pertussis is still commonplace

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pertussis


    now rember most of those 10,000,000 will be health adults and most of the 600,000 will be babies and then see if you still think its a "fairly innocuous disease". i will try to get a WHO chart tomorow but i cant on my phone
     
  13. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,361
    In third world countries, absolutely the death toll will be high. I was talking about us Richie Riches like the USA and Australia, primarily. Although I love that you appeal to my unique sense of logic.

    Asguard: 10,000,000 adults!

    Me: I can live with that.

    Asguard: 600,000 babies!

    Me: The ugly ones, right?

    Asguard: Your child might be mildly inconvenienced by this!

    Me: NOOOO!

    I'm just not sure in a country like the US where health care is privatized that it's fair or right they force me to do anything as an adult. I'd like to see the stats though. I'm broad-minded.
     
  14. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    um your missing a couple of points

    1)that wasnt my point at all. my point was that if your child CANT be vacinated due to allergies then at least they still will be by other peoples immunity

    2) you missed the last sentance. canada has a problem with it still and its rising in Australia

    3) of course its higher in the third world. vacination rates are almost zero there

    as i said i will get the WHO mortality and morbidity rates at uni tomorow hopefully by age and country
     
  15. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    1) Most people will get these shots voluntarily. Do we really need to enforce this?

    2) The death rate from pertussis? Or the incidents of the disease itself? And how much?

    3) They also don't have treatment for the disease as available in third world countries. If you get whooping cough in Australia or England, it's unlikely to be a big deal. We're talking about vaccines that are linked to seizures and autism. I think that's a very personal choice.
     
  16. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    general infection rates and BTW the links to autisium has been debunked tume and again. there IS no link, the only people who ard still producing that junk are those idiologically oposed. will try to post the evidence against that as well
     
  17. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    23,049
    put it this way, the doc they interviewed had three pts. 2 walked out (figrativly speaking concidering they were babies), 1 died. not a large sample size but i expect that rate will be acurate.
     
  18. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Unless they have a serious allergy, have it done.
     
  19. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    2,361
    I agree it should be done if there's no allergy risk. I'm just not sure it should be legally mandated.
     
  20. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,221
    The allergy thing is really a non-issue anyway. There are various alternative versions of all the major vaccines available that are made in different ways to avoid whatever specific allergy you (or your children) might have. There might be some small number of people with very rare, freaky allergies that none of the standard non-allergenic vaccines could work for, but that would be a truly tiny percentage of the population. (And even then, the worst-case scenario is probably that the nurse has to inject you with some epinephrine afterward.)
     
  21. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    10,890
    The work of Paracelsus in the field of toxicology is often cited by Homeopathists as being some of the founding work in Homeopathy (at least as I understand it, it's a claim you'll see made on many homeopathy websites).

    To some extent, vaccination is the ultimate expression of the principle "Alle Ding sind Gift, und nichts ohn Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist."
    "All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

    Which, if you cut through the dilution woo-woo is ultimately what homeopathy is about - that which mimics the symptoms, gives the cure.
     
  22. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Does that include culturing virii without egg yolk?
     
  23. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    possably, depends on the vacine i guess. as i understand it there are two types. one is a direct dose of antibodies which have been manifactured in egg yolks or pigs or whatever. the second is a live virus but a weakened strain, like the small pox vacine which is cowpox.

    however there are 2 differences between vacines and moden homopathics

    1) its NOT just water and no one ever claims it is. it most definintly contains either a dose of antibodies for the body to replicate, or something for the body to fight

    2) more importantly there is EVIDENCE for the efficacy of vacines where homopathy has none

    as a side note i would like to say that your quote is correct in that the dose does change something from being toxic to helpful. somethings the body can control itself and some it cant Na+ and K+ are good examples of that.
     

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