To spank or not to spank.???

Well, if you would have read the whole post of what you quoted, you'd have your answer.
And whatever age my child realizes what will get them scolded, then yes I will. If they are very young, then maybe a smack on the back of their hand would be enough. It doesn't have to be hard enough to hurt. Just the gesture makes a lot of children realize they screwed up (either that or they are future special ed kids).

Tsk tsk tsk. Sounds like she had parents that didn't know what they were doing period.
The situation you described sounds to me like it has little to do with the parents spanking her and way moreso with how they parent to begin with.
If you are a parent who knows what they're doing and are consistent with your punishment/discipline, whatever it is, you won't have many problems.
If I spank a child, it would be with my hand or paddle only, and on their bottom only. I will not backhand, slap(i.e. bitch or pimpslap), punch , kick or otherwise administer any cruel and unusual punishment. Sorry bud, but spanking is not abuse.

You just proved my point, buddy. Just like I mentioned, I will not punch, slap, kick or otherwise abuse my child. I will let him/her know that if they don't do what they're supposed to, they'll get a spanking. And even when they do do something wrong, they'll know that all I will do as far as that goes is spank them. They will never have to fear me punching them throwing them to the ground, kicking them or any other physical abuse. Spankings are not abuse.

 

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and that's just it. They like hitting. It worked for their parents and who wants to admit your parent was abusive?
Some people don't think about it, they just do it.

 

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Well yes that seems to be the reasonin spankers use for spankin.!!!

I suspect they was perty typical as far as new parents go.!!!

I agree that consistency is estremely importent.!!!

Abuse is how ever you want to define it... but i thank thers beter ways of rasin a kid than usin spankin to make them behave... an i wish all parents who spank woud at leas have the limits you described above.!!!

 

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That and 'intent' as I mention below are the two most important factors.

Why thank you. I'm just passing on what my parents (and aunt's/uncle's when I lived with them) did for me. I got spanked. I also got grounded. I got privledges taken away, etc. But when I got spanked, whoever was doing it, was always consistent with it. Either with a paddle or hand.
Abuse is inconsistency with beatings/assaults and malicious intent.*

*I should have mentioned this earlier, but intent is the biggest differential between a structured disciplinary action and abuse.
Much like dogs, when you scold a child, you cannot, I repeat, you cannot have any sort of malicous intent when you do it. I know as a parent you may be upset at what your child did, but if you go and spank him/her whilst pissed off, that could easily turn into abuse.
Just like Cesar Millan mentions that you have to be calm and assertive with dogs when you discipline them, you also have to be calm when disciplining children. You really have to have that 'This is going to hurt me as much or more than it hurts you' mentality when you go to spank a child.
If you're consistent with spanking a child when you punish them, the child will understand that it's for punishment, not abuse.

 

Just want to raise this option with you: How about the soul of the foot, the quote on quote "Italian method" of spanking the souls of the foot. I'm not saying it superior but its an option with its own pros and cons: the foot is not (normally) a sexual arousing region, the soul of the foot has far different sensitivity then the buttocks with the requirement of a belt as if you do it barehanded your hand is going to hurt as much as its foot, but this can actually be a good thing as you can more accurately gauge how much pain your administering, keeping in mind of course that a child can only withstand a fraction of the pain an adult can. Also a bare foot is much easier to come by than a bare buttocks, assuming its not outside and wearing shoes, but administering corporal punishment outside is dangerous as nosy assholes are quick to overreact and assume abuse, and get the gasto/eer child services to threaten take away your kids and put you through several months for brainwas/eer counseling you until you see the claimed wrongness of your action, eh lucifers angel?

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You sound like an awesome babysitter clueluss! That picture you described with the juggling and nylon string was great!

Oh and I really don't have any trouble reading what you write. You're spelling is terrible but but it's logical.

Yah I think that too but I didn't mention it because I was on the topic of kids. After all, adults are just kids who have lived longer.

Where are your statistics and facts to back this one up?

In my own experience, the act of being man handled and administered pain for some offense other than malicious physical abuse is demoralizing and fear causing. This attitude is probably a big reason why I don't have open communication lines with my father. But I guess if that doesn't matter to some parents then this won't affect their parenting.

Why do these shitty parents have kids in the first place?

 

I see no problem with that, but if you as a parent go that route, you need to stick with and be consistent with that method.
And yes, you have to be careful scolding a child in public. If my child and I were in public, and he/she started being unruly and noisy, the first thing I would do is remove myself and the child from that area. Both so I could punish him in private and so the rest of the crowd didn't have to listen to him/her scream. I know that gets on my last nerve when children/babies start crying/screaming in public and their parents don't do anything about it.

 

Thanks... its fond memories.... but the thang is... i only had 9 houres a day of responsibility for her an i felt wor out at the end of the day... it dont surprize me at all that full time parents loose patience an use spankin as a quick fix... plus releivin som frustraton by hittin the little bugger... cause i ant buyin it that spankers (in general) are calm an thoutful when they hit ther kids... thers definitely elements of anger involved.!!!

Well good... som do an som dont... but i can undrstan... i woudnt try to read stuff if it bugged me to try an read it ether.!!!

 

Sure:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/0832772w65l9824n/
Results: For the children the mean number of errors for the
baited condition was 2.93 and for the unbaited condition 5.75: this
difference is significant at P<.01 using the Wilcoxon matched-pairs
signed ranks test. For adults errors for the baited condition were
0.75 and for the unbaited 0.60 and this difference is not significant.
This result shows that children, but not adults, resemble frontally
damaged monkeys in having difficulty in suppressing a preferred
response.

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200622/000020062206A0827954.php
The qualitative data indicated that the surface similarities increased the production of general rules, and that the older children produced such rules to a greater extent than the younger ones did. These findings suggest that effects of surface similarity on young children's analogical reasoning correlate with the possibility of abstracting general rules.

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/development/piaget.shtml
"We often expect children to think like adults when they are not yet capable of doing so. It is important that parents know what to expect from their child as they develop and to be sure that the expectations they may have for their child at a given age are realistic."

http://www.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2445(199805)60:2<388:PEREAA>2.0.CO;2-K&cookieSet=1
This study statistically compares punishment techniques. It finds all techniques are statistically significant, with immediate response to disobedience being the most important factor. The study finds reasoning alone least effective.

a little fact: IQ testing has be correlated with age, why? because child have significantly lower IQs than adults.

Perhaps the lever of corporal punishment you received was abusive, age inappropriate, or even incompatible with your personality.

Shitty parents and corporal punishment are not the same thing. True shitty parents usually resort to corporal punishment and abuse, but corporal punishment is not the cause, shitty parents are. They breed because they fuck.

 

In the UK, hitting other people is illegal. It’s called assault. That is unless the person you hit is a child. In that case it is called ‘reasonable chastisement’, and so long as you don’t leave a mark, it is still legal. To me, this is nonsensical. Surely everyone should have equal protection in the law? If anything, children need extra protection from assault, not less. ‘Smacking’ means to hurt a child deliberately, and this should not be an acceptable thing to do.

Some parents claim it is their right to hit their children and the state should not intervene. But children are not the property of their parents. Violence against anyone, including anyone in the family, should be illegal and the state should intervene to stop people getting hurt.

There are numerous other reasons why hitting children should be banned. Firstly, adults need to set a good example for young children to follow. The idea that if someone does something you dislike, you hit them, is surely not a message we want children to pick up. The UK is also under international pressure to give children equal protection. For instance, the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child and the European Committtee on Social Rights have both said the UK needs to update its laws.

The UK is behind several countries such as Germany, the Netherlands and Spain, which have all outlawed corporal punishment. Thirdly, the vague wording of rules over hitting children leaves children open to more serious abuse. One person’s ‘reasonable punishment’ will seem extreme to others. Research has also shown that parents often hit their children harder than they mean to. A complete ban on violence against children removes any ambiguity.

News reports frequently feature statistics on how many parents support smacking. Children’s views are rarely mentioned. This needs to change.

 

Which I just acknowledged. Possibly for some kids it is the only method that would work, but I would refrain from using it if at all possible.

You only 'own' them in areas where they are not mature enough to make their own decisions, be self sufficient, etc. They're not merely a piece of property.

Yes and if you were to slap your dog around I think that would count as abuse.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

Is it ok for your kid to hit you back?

If not, why?

From the kid's point of view, it's reasonable.

 

Yeah, unfortunately that's what it takes for some people.

I bet if someone who didn't know me saw me play fighting with my dogs, they would swear I was abusing them. I will smack them and punch them, only to the point where it annoys and provokes them rather than causes pain, and they LOVE it. They will get as rough as I do when we play around. In fact, I'm going to go smack them around a little bit now.

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Back in a while.

 

Play fighting is hardly equivalent to abuse. You don't actually hurt them, and it's not a punishment for anything.

 

ElectricFetus, your sources are irrelevant because it doesn't take into account how they were raised - it just deals with ages. If all the children in those studies were raised relatively the same then of course the older children would have an edge.

 

A dog is not merely a piece of property either, and many scold their dogs for bad behavior with slaps: abuse of a dog usually consist of injuring the dog, starving it, making it live in unsanitary conditions, etc.

stateofmind,

You certainly did not read all the sources, the forth specifically counts economic class, varying parenting techniques and does not look at age variation. And I'm glad you agree that it is logical that the older a child is the more receptive it is to reasoning, I just provided studies that prove the obvious because you asked.

 

Children's views? That's like asking a bunch of first graders if they think they should have to go to school. What are most of them going to say? Yet as an adult you realize the value of an education, 6 year olds for the most part see it as an annoying thing their parents make them do (I know because I asked them). Children probably don't agree with any punishment method because if they liked it, it wouldn't be much of a punishment. But if you really want to know how children feel about spanking, I'll ask them right now.

 

I'm pretty sure we could construe that from your previous posts. I sure post brainwashing its nonsensical to you now.

Wait, that confusing, first you say everyone should have equal protection under the law, then you say some should have more?

they aren't citizens with free rights either, their somewhere between inanimate property and citizens, something like a pet but with more responsibility, something I've already mentioned.

of course, but some would saying spanking is not violence.

Surely, but corporal punishment is not the same as unregistered violence, as in its more complicated than simply "you dislike, you hit them". A lot of things could be inmoral if interpreted simple enough, for example "you suck the life of another person for nine months" or "You kill life when you eat" or even better "you kill life when you walk on grass", etc.

So because they do it you should too, I'll remember that during the next lemming stampede over the cliff.

I have nothing against better legislation, how about this: "A child may only be hit bare handed on specific body parts X and Y without leaving bruises, and only after a considerable effort was made by the parent to administer non-corporal punishment beforehand" it could do with lot more legal grammar and details and but that would be an improvement would you not agree?

Research has also shown that aliens have an anal fetish, but I won't cite my source until you cite yours.

It also removes freedoms, can't get without taking.

Ooooh that rich, I can see it now: "We the children demand more cookies! The right to go to bed at any time we want, the right to skip school and the general right to tell our parents to fuck off and do what ever we want!"

 

Alright time for some kids' opinions on spanking. I asked the children that are here the center (where I am supposed to be working right now, but their all watching a movie so it's okay). There are 13 kids here ranging in age from 3 to 9 years old. 2 of the kids say that they have never been spanked before, the other 11 all say that they have. Out of all 13 only 1 (who was spanked) admits to actually hate, their parents. As the three year old didn't really get the question, I'll exclude him. Of the 12 remaining children they all think that spanking can be beneficial, including the 2 that have never been spanked. For most of the kids (9) they think it depends on what the child "in need of punishing" has done. "If they do something really bad, like stealing or spitting on their teacher, they should be spanked no matter what because they need to be taught a lesson. And if they got spanked they won't do it anymore. I wouldn't" (9 year old girl). The other 3 all agree that it depends on if your parents told you not to do it already and you don't obey. "When Mama, tells me not to do something bad, sometimes I'll do it anyway because I want to, and then she gets mad, then I don't do it no more" (6 year old boy). This kid probably doesn't need to be spanked (that's just my opinion though). Then there's "demon kid" of whom I mentioned in my earlier post. He's never been spanked and quite proud of it. He said his parents don't believe in spanking. When he gets in trouble his parents take away his video games or send him to his room. He says he doesn't care because he can still do whatever he wants in his room. "All I have to do is be nice and act all sorry and I probably won't get in trouble at all" (demon kid 8 years old). He makes me want to strangle him, but again that's just my opinion. I see jail in this kids future, for both physical assault and white collar crimes. So those are some kids' views. I know my sample is terrible and small and not random, but now you know how a few kids in Los Angeles CA, feel about spanking.