Time Does it exist?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    The initial question appears faulty. If you can 'conceptualize' it, 'think' about it, 'it' now has the quality of 'existence', if nowhere else but in your mind, your thoughts.
    What I think you might have actually meant, is to ask...
    if 'time' is 'Real'.
    Nope.
    'Now' has no depth. (See; Planck moment) The 'moment' in which you 'exist', Now, is a Planck moment 'existing' outside the context/concept of time.
    With no 'time', there can be no 'space' nor 'change' nor 'materiality' or any other percepts existing any otherwhere than in and as your 'concepts'. All moments 'existing' concurrently. Big Bang (thought), then... nothing else. No 'time'.
    We tend to take a select assortment of 'moments', line them up in a string, imagining things like 'cause and effect', 'time', 'motion', space, etc... Pretty ingenious, huh?

    But like 'us', 'time' does 'exist'.
     
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  3. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    common now nameless quit it

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    .


    you know what the question was dont go all philosophical on me its to late for that shit

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    ,

    we both know what the question is here,


    does time exist as anything other than an abstract?, its about "abstracts again" ofcourse,

    is time a real flowing energy force that effects our universe, like an ether of unseen energy that can be manipulated and dialated etc, that has rules to apply by,


    or is time an abstract, a measuring dimention of the human mind, a tool that we use to calculate events actions and days/years of our mortal lives,


    let me ask 1 philosophical riddle after for you, if your god in your infinite dimention of existence where you have always existed and always will exist,
    does time exist to you in any way?


    peace.
     
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  5. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    Only in my dreams...
     
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  7. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    does time exist as anything other than an abstract?
    No!
     
  8. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    would a god dream?


    and ok then so we agree?

    peace,
     
  9. nameless Registered Senior Member

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    'Dreaming' is all a 'god' can 'do'!

    God dreams me,
    I dream my unique universe and have my unique dream-life and,
    through 'me' and 'me' (God's invisible friends), god enjoys 'life'; pizza, love, farts, beauty, time, hair, the feeling of one tooth missing (one hand getting the clap?) as examined by my tongue, substances, love, compassion, rage, interactions, an almost unlimited number of 'perspectives', personal relationships, feelings, thoughts... ad infinitum.

    As god does not 'exist', and 'existence' is where it's 'all happening', god dreams us that he may taste thereof.

    We are all god's 'invisible friends'.

    I was talking with my son tonight about what would all of people's 'invisible friends' see if they all got together for an 'invisible friend' convention?
    People (with invisible friends) can ordinarily 'see' them. The 'invisible friend' cannot 'see' the person dreaming it.
    We 'invisible friends' 'see' each other, yet are unable, naturally, to see the One 'dreaming' us.
    The dreamed cannot comprehend the dreamer. The one Dreaming us, though, is 'Conscious' of that which we are 'conscious'.

    Surprisingly, quantum physics supports this, as do many other disciplines.

    And I find it most distasteful to use the word 'god' when I mean 'Consciousness/Mind'. God is such a baggage laden and meaningless term.

    In some ways...
    *__-
     
  10. talk2farley Registered Senior Member

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    190

    Do things change, yes or no?
     
  11. nameless Registered Senior Member

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  12. valich Registered Senior Member

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    Cesspool.

    Contradictory question with contradictory answers to the question.

    No reason to reply.
     
  13. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    someting CHI asked above...: is time a abstract?

    whatis 'opposite' of 'time'? isn't it 'eternity' and/or 'atemporality'? ,eaning a sense where time as we usually understand it seems limited...?

    so we have then two 'abstracts don't we:

    time..............&.............eternity

    who abtracts these terms?isit the human mind? do animals also have sense of both time and terity? for example i KNOW that animalshave and do seek out various drugs just like we do, including psychedelicas (Animals and Psychedelics, by Giorgio Samorini)----and those in the know, know that psychedelics give the user actual direct experience of eternity

    but is it US who ABSTRACT these terms? have one neatly-put over 'here' and the other one neatly-put over 'there', and imagining them kind of apart. Not mingling. not a dynamic PROCESS??
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    just some thoughts,
    If we subscribe to a beginning of time. The big bang or some such event then all change for eternity was seeded at this moment when everything came into existance. The future changes since the big bang being driven by the energies realised at this event. So could not one conclude that time [ change ] is energy in fact any energy is time manfested.
    At the start of the universe a huge amount of energy differential existed propelling every thing forward in time generating change and that change continues today as a part of it's genisis so long ago.
    So time in this sense is simply energy and energy is time.

    Thus accordingly in answer to the question, yes time exists just as energy does.

    Any way ...just thinking.....
     
  15. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    6,585
    i believe BB is modern myth---see Christian de Quincey's exploration of this myth www.deepspirit.com scroll down to his 'long papers' and 'Bing Bang Myth?'
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    17,541
    Before I get to involved in this question I wanted to say that time, is probably the most complicated issue there is IMO.
    So any discussion here is not even going to get close.

    But if we stick to the notion of linea time such as beginnings and endings one can see that at the beginning there was the creation of a NOW and a very long future, with out much in the way of a past. So the universe exploded into existance with a fightening speed. As the past became greater the universe slowed it's expansion and the past started to drag the rate at whihc the NOW changed at. So as the immediate imbalance of energy became less imbalanced the universe stablised and it's speed of change became virtually constant.
    So all that energy that is driving us forward in time or at least driving the change we experience is made up of positive and negative energy differences. Thus change is the manifestation of this differential.
    Now where this idea fails or causes concern is that at some point the past will equal the future and at that point change will cease to occur. As the universe matures it starts to slow down [ in time] until the initial burst of forward energy is balanced by an increasing past.

    Ok this assumes that time is energy and that there was a beginning and that will be an end.

    If one subsciribes to the notion of eternity then we have no beginning and we have no ending in a linea sense. Which means that the universe is a perpetual change machine that will never stop. Time in this case is the differential in energies. Change being that differential manifested as movement. Which means that time is a default abstraction [ being that differential ] and not a physical manifestation other than actual work done [chamge ] So in this sense time is only available by default of movement and not movement itself.

    Years ago I considered the notion that time was simply put as past [ negative] and future [ positive ] and what we see is the differential between the two energies. The NOW is actually exactly in the middle of both energies as a zero point or center of time. [ that infinitely small moment where change is actually occuring in continuum.]

    WE can take two bar magnets fro example and we can call one pole negative [past] and the other positive [ future ] At the center between these poles is a null point which could be considered as the NOW.

    When to opposite poles are placed to gether the bar magnets now make up a single magnet with the center NOW [ null ] point where both opposite poles have come together, Thus it could be said that the attraction of both the past and the future is towards Nothingness [ balance ] and that nothing ness is commonly referred to as the NOW. So both the past and the future combined create the NOW thus they also create nothingness. Yet the nothignness creates the attraction of both poles simultaneously.

    So we end up with a paradox of what creates what, which is why the system works. Something ness creates nothingness and nothingness creates something ness. A self contained singularity which is the center of time [ NOW]

    So time is reality [ constantly changing ] with nothingness right in the middle of it all.

    You could extend this idea to say that graviti is time flowing to nothingness.

    That at the center of mass is a zero point that all mass shares [ including human consciousness ] and that awareness is Gravity or the flow of time to that zero point.

    But of course time as already described is only a differential and not a substance so gravity is a continuous differential and thus offers a potential for movement [ change and not change itself.]

    Sorry if this has confused, and they are merely my thoughts about the reality of time.

    I think one of the best ways to help explain this is to consider a 2 dimesnional rectangular plane [ like a strip ] that is polarsed past at one end and future at the other.
    As one pole is attracted to the other pole the strip folds in on itself so that the two poles come together. but as it collapses the poles are still at opposite ends and so the strip just keeps on folding and collapsing constantly keeping the Now at it's center. Perpetualy collapsing thus generating a constant flow to the center with out ever reaching the center thus we have gravity. Time perpetually coillapsing towards the NOW.

    This leads to the notion that the beginning and end of time is actually in the middle of time. Thus the Now is eternal. The beginning can only start NOW and the ending can only end NOW.


    Any way thats the general idea...
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2006
  17. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    altho i respect your unique form of inquiry --regarding last post, for meeee it is too abstracty

    you said how almost impossibloe it is to define whattime IS. i go with that.

    to understand what time MEANS for 'us'--it isVERY appropriate to quickly summarize patriarchal and prepatriarchal/and/or indigenous understandings of T I M E:

    For patriarchy, and under that term i include Western Mystery Tradition, Gnosticism, and Eastern mysticism---time is a curse to be escaped FROM. I West, in orthodoxy it is linear momentum from aplha to omega, and Wester/Eastern mysticism its the escape into 'eternity'. so we can see dichotomy can't we...between the abstracts 'time' and 'eternity'?

    However wit prepatriarchal/indigenousearth-cenred worldview, time and eternity form a continuum! Death is seen as PART OF tis continuum which of course includes time, aging

    what the patriarchs have done is extremely-oppressively mechanize SENSE of time, which makes more and more of us feel utterly utterly bound in a frantic rush of time where there seems to be NO time.
     

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