Thoughts and prayers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Vociferous, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    648
    Evidence?
    Schools don't have targets in enclosed areas?
    All what money? You can make a bump stock for about 100 bucks.

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    An extended mag makes their capacity the same, but hunting rifles are far deadlier.

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    So you can change the subject but I can't? Double standard.
    Not respond, or not respond how you think they should?
    There was a time when 18 year olds did regularly keep guns in their vehicles, even at school. And there were zero concerns about schools shootings.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    27,572
    Shotguns are not more deadly than assault rifles in mass shootings. Give up.
    You keep trying to change the subject. That's because you're trolling most of the time - posting in bad faith, misreading purposefully. I call you on it sometimes, not always. Would you prefer to be called on it every single time I respond?
    That's a hundred bucks wasted, if an ordinary rifle can match the RPMs anyway.
    Which it can't, of course.
    Not in typical mass shootings. They are too slow, and so they have to be aimed accurately and rapidly to kill lots of people in a very short time. That's an uncommon skill.
    Not assault rifles. Not rapid fire handguns. And not at schools with 2000 students.

    There was a time when the NRA favored gun control.
    There was a time when some towns required visitors to check their firearms with the sheriff for as long as they stayed in town, and nobody was allowed to carry on the street.
    There was a time when only the wealthy owned many guns.
    There was a time when high capacity magazines, high RPM weapons, and specialty murder ammunition, were military gear only. Tommy guns, for example, were banned. No problem with the 2nd Amendment.

    That was a time when thoughts and prayers were less likely to mark the callous and aloof, maybe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    im sure USA rich private school using avid sports familys are not keen to have children carrying loaded machine guns around at school.
    more soo there are rules not laws, like the school rules, which will be enforced by the police to any 999 call.

    but that is not really the subject.
    so is the USA rich private school using avid sporting & hunting family that enjoy family hunting trips to far out of the way log cabins and such like, gun clubs etc etc etc ad infanitum...

    yet that too is not the actual issue.

    the issue is seeking to prevent the process of the incident.
    not some type of misplaced political indoctrination.

    the US administration has ALL the power.
    they can suspend someones legal rights at will and do so every day of the year.
    they spy on whom ever they wish and change laws post event to legalise things.

    thats how it works.

    yet they do not seem to be doing anything... yet they have all that power.

    why ?

    have they illistrated the actual problem to the public ? (i do not think so)
    have they sought psychiatric profesionals to study the issue and make formal public releases of the issues and causes ? (i do not think so)

    why are there no mass shootings at private schools ?
    how are private schools getting it soo correct that they do not suffer from mass shootings ?
    surely there is something all the state schools can learn and copy ? (more funding for student mental health? classroom crowding leading to mental illness and bullying?)
    lack of 1 on 1 time with students resulting in allowing mentally ill students to simply fall through the cracks ?
    or more soo be pushed through as quickly as possible ?

    whats the deal ?
     
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  7. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    648
    An AR15 fires a 22 caliber projectile that has less penetration than a 9mm handgun. This is a closer description of what a shotgun slug would do:
    “They didn’t lose their lives, their lives were were ripped out of their bodies, their brains were splattered on the floor, their intestines were hanging out. It was sickening.”
    Anderson Cooper​
    Educate yourself.
    If I only I could understand you most the time. The only bad faith seems to be your assumptions.
    No bump stock or slide fire device, just semi-automatic:


    There are plenty of semi-auto hunting rifles, and they require no more accuracy than an AR15 and usually are much higher caliber than the AR15's 22 caliber bullet.
    Or 2 9mms with 30 round mags, which can collectively fire faster than an AR15, have more penetration, and higher capacity as well.
    You obvious don't live in the US and don't know what you're talking about. Actual machine guns are very restricted, registered, and tracked. Most states currently have laws that keep guns off school grounds.
    Not without due process.
     
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  8. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    53,226
    President Trump: “I like taking the guns early … Take the guns first, go through due process second.”
     
  9. ChucklesM Banned Banned

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    85
    Ban Assault Liberals (All the guns are staying)
     
  10. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,226
    President Trump asked Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) to add her “assault weapons” ban to the overarching school safety bill during a bipartisan meeting with lawmakers on Wednesday.

    #MAGA
     
  11. ChucklesM Banned Banned

    Messages:
    85
    As a black man, I trust a white Sheriff in Cobb County, Georgia in a MAGA hat chewing Red Man and wearing reflective sunglasses stopping me at 2 a.m. on a dark, desolate, rural road in my new, shiny, NY-plated Cadillac Escalade with dark tinted windows and 40” spinners while I blast “Cop Killer” and reach under my seat for my license, registration, and insurance, much more than I trust Robert Mueller. Or Barack Obama.
     
  12. ChucklesM Banned Banned

    Messages:
    85
    Democrats and Liberals know as much about guns and gun laws as Michael Moore knows about hang gliding.
     
  13. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,226
    So clever, did Putin write that for you?
     
  14. ChucklesM Banned Banned

    Messages:
    85
    The Russian Story and Dossier are as fake as Brainless Joe Biden’s hair and teeth.
     
  15. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    53,226
    Then why did 13 Russians get indicted?
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,572
    So?
    Ordinary rifles are slower, and therefore have to be aimed and handled with skill to kill quickly in mass numbers. That's an uncommon skill.
    It was a description of what an assault rifle actually did.
    Assault rifles are more lethal than shotguns in mass shootings.
    A shotgun is slow, short range, and lacks penetration. A slug gun, is slow, short range, and has to be aimed. They make fine weapons for hunting, some militia operations, and home defense. Neither works well for rapid mass murder by an amateur shooter - they simply aren't as lethal in that role as an assault rifle or other high RPM weapon. That's why they aren't used for that purpose, even by shooters who have them right at hand (the Las Vegas shooter, say).
    So?
    The design specifics - they are irrelevant. It makes absolutely no difference how some clever mechanical designer achieves high RPM capability in the hands of an amateur or ordinary shooter. It's the RPMs, not the model numbers, that are the problem.

    People who repeatedly send thoughts and prayers to the victims of amateur wielded high RPM weaponry after repeatedly blocking restrictions on such weaponry are giving offense.
     
  17. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    648
    Yes, he's a constitutional ignorant who regularly says moronic things.
    Less lethal and less potential for collateral damage.
    Only if you're calling bolt/lever-action rifles "ordinary."
    All but one of the most popular rifles are AR15-type. https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/most-popular-guns-in-america/13/
    Doesn't refute what I said either.
    No, at best, it was the description of a fully-automatic machine gun.
    All firearms have to be aimed.
    Those are regular AR15s.
    Even though law enforcement failed to do its job (the same people leftists want to have all the guns), those people have proposed protective measures, and are willing to vote for a bill that would increase the penalties for government agencies failing to report to the NICS background check system.
     
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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,572
    I am contrasting the high RPM large magazine weapons with the slower rifles in common civilian use.
    In amateur hands they are more lethal than shotguns (or any lower RPM weapon) for mass murder.
    The high RPM ones do not have to be aimed, and in practice cannot be aimed, as the others have to be, to kill many people quickly.
    So?
    Again: you waste time on design details. However high RPM and massive delivery of firepower is achieved, it renders the weapon unsuitable for civilian use and hazardous in ordinary and unrestricted civilian hands. It becomes a military or well-trained person only weapon - like an RPG, or a live grenade, or a shoulder-mounted missile launcher.

    And people who fail to do what they can to prevent mass murder of schoolchildren with these weapons, who actively block others from preventing it over many years and many events, have no business announcing that they are sending thoughts and prayers to the families of the children they have failed to protect. That's offensive. They can pray in private, and think to themselves, and avoid giving offense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  19. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    648
    Reports are saying the Parkland shooter didn't even use high-capacity magazines.
    "Common" does not mean "ordinary" or even "popular."
    Do you have a comparison study?
    Ignorant nonsense. Ask anyone in the military about automatic rifles.
    Only according to you. Civilians can own RPGs and grenades. Look it up.
    Yet Democrats are pulling a gun control bill with bipartisan support, in the hopes of passing more, which they won't get. Means they are giving up a passable gun control bill in favor of doing nothing.
     
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  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    27,572
    If my posts confuse you that badly, have an intelligent high school student explain them to you.
    I have. That's where I got the information in my posts.
    So you would be fine with restricting high RPM firearms as RPGs and grenades are restricted.
    Progress.
    Sure. Weapons choice statistics of mass murderers, military folks, etc. What is called a "natural experiment".
    The Republican Party is the one doing nothing.
    Except offer thoughts and prayers, of course.
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,198
    It means: We are saying what's easiest and cheapest. Don't expect anything substantial.

    In a public declaration, it nearly always translates as "I want other people to think I care."

    Why? If the misfortune befell someone you know, offer them a casserole or a place to crash while they recover, or a shoulder to cry on or your grief counsellor's phone number. Thoughts and prayers are ineffective.
    If it's someone you don't know, their misfortune is none of your business. And I don't believe you'll think or pray all that much for them, anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  22. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    648
    Then you either misunderstood them or they were pulling your leg.
    Which of these do you want restricted?
    1:

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    2:

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    Even mass shootings are overwhelmingly committed with handguns. https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
    No, they would actually vote for this Democrat bill, but they Dems don't really want that. They would lose a talking point in upcoming elections. Republicans aren't doing anything you like, but Democrats aren't doing anything that has a chance to pass (and actually do something).
    So Chris Pratt should have offered Kevin Smith to come stay with him?
    And proposals about armed guards and teachers aren't substantial?
    We shouldn't have any sympathy for people we don't know? Gun control advocates are claiming we need more sympathy for strangers.
     
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  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    2,198
    No: he said he didn't know him well. Shutting up would have been more appropriate.
    If he really wanted to pray for the guy, he could have; just between him and his god.
    Telling the world is just self-advertisement. Using another person's misfortune to make himself look good. That's offensive.
    Insubstantial, plus STUPID!
    If you did, you'd keep it private. A public show is about you.
    No, they're not. They're saying we need a government that protects everyone.
     

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