There is no such a thing as a volunteer army...

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by Syzygys, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    ...in America, at least. It is a missnomer and only idiots use it.

    The correct word is PROFESSIONAL army. Once you get paid for doing a service, it is called a JOB and not a volunteer action. Working for McDonalds is not voluntering. (although not really professional either)

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    To be in the PTA is voluntering, donating blood for free is voluntering, being an organ donor is a volunteer. Being a professional soldier is deceiding on a CARRIER. Another term is mercenary,(professional soldier) like it or not. It doesn't matter if the State employs you or a private organization, by definition you are a mercenary...

    Just so you know. So stop using it...
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    volunteer army

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    is different than a drafted conscripted army.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    Again, it is called a professional army and that is also different, than a drafted army.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Start thinking outside of the box and question authority...

    You don't call the police volunteer forces, do you?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,535
    If it is a job, you can leave it. I can quit my job at McDonalds. Sure with other positions the employee and the company can have a contract with terms of notice on both sides and potential FINANCIAL penalties for breaking the contract early. But many companies try to work out a mutually beneficial split in the event the employee wants to leave before the end of a contract. The reason: it is easier and makes more sense. You want employees who believe in their work. It is poor business practice to compel people to participate and, also, it is a warning sign that something is wrong with your company if people want to leave and the only way you can staff efficiently is to compel them to stay.
     
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    Paying the All-Volunteer Force

    More than 35 years ago, the congressionally mandated Gates Commission submitted its final report to President Richard Nixon, endorsing the establishment of a military consisting entirely of volunteers. At the time, the concept of no-draft armed forces was considered by many to be a radical idea that would prove insufficient in meeting national security needs.

    According to the commission, the benefits of a volunteer military included inducing leaders to use manpower more efficiently, increasing retention, and providing a morale-boosting alternative to conscription. Forced service was "intolerable" when compared with a volunteer system that aligned more distinctly with "our basic national values."The commission went so far as to describe conscription as a tax that deprived individuals "of their freedom to pursue their careers where and how they choose—in essence their right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness," concluding that "it is hard to imagine a means of imposing the cost of defense, or any other Government activity for that matter, more in conflict with accepted standards of justice, equality and freedom in the United States."

    Alternatively, an all-volunteer force offered a system consistent with American principles, minimizing government interference and allowing individuals to determine their own life choices in accord with their values; but for a volunteer system to work, the historically low pay for those entering the military had to be increased to a level that could compete with civilian pay. The commission determined that until this pay gap was corrected, "an all-volunteer force cannot be realized." Increasing military compensation was therefore "a necessary price of defending [America's] peace and security."

    http://www.heritage.org/Research/nationalSecurity/bg2144.cfm
     
  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    Totally, totally wrong! It isn't a matter of linguistics, it's a matter of application - and you are trying to split hairs crosswise instead of lengthwise.

    What it really means - and it's clear to any adult - is a matter of choice (volunteering) and a matter of being forced (not volunteering.)

    You may freely choose to participate in the PTA or not - your choice. But if you are forced into the military by a draft, you MUST either go or flee the country.

    Simply put, your thoughts here are a distortion and there's really nothing to be discussed. You are just wrong and that the end of it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2008
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    If you cannot leave it when you want to, its not a volunteer position.
     
  11. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    HA! You have it exactly backwards. The english word "volunteer" was first used in the earth 17th century as a noun that specifically meant a person who decided to join the army on their own, rather than being conscripted. Over the centuries people started using it to describe other situations where people decided to do something of their own free will, rather than being forced. Eventually it was corrupted to the point it's at today, where often people use it to mean someone who does something without pay out of the goodness of their heart.

    If you want to nitpick about the "proper" use of the word, calling an army a "volunteer army" and its soldiers "volunteers" is about the only way the word can properly be used.
     
  12. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538

    So voluntary commitment isn't in your vocabulary?
    S.A.M. will jump on any thread to insult America, I only hope you don't live here.

    Syzgys; a proffesional army is one of mercanaries, those exist. Look at the French guard during WWII.
     
  13. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    Hehe, except special jobs. Like military. Or astronaut. Imagine if you have to stay at the international spacestation for 6 months, but after 2 months you "had enough" and want to leave. I don't think so.

    There is a simple and very logical reason why military forces can not be left just on a moment's notice, and that is called SECURITY. End of story.

    You didn't add anything to the discussion...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Now seriously, when was the last time I was wrong? Maybe in the previous century...

    Sure it is, that's why I posted it here.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    It is a question of definition. Look up volunteer and professional and you will see.

    So the workers at Walmart and Burger Kings are all volunteers, I see. If one doesn't like to use professional, even non-drafted would be a better word.

    Look guys, I see why they use it the way they do, but it is wrong, just like soymilk. Now you know....

    P.S.: I think I found a solution, using the word "voluntereed". This indicates that it happened once and not continuously doing it so...
    Also the expression "professional army" doesn't exclude governments:

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/ital-s24.shtml

    "Italy to create professional army" (correct usage!!!)

    Another one:

    http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373031

    "Turkey takes steps towards professional army"

    Interesting, foreigners can use it correctly....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    And another one, Poland:

    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2057658/posts

    "Poland introduces professional army"

    Let's not forget Sweden!:

    http://www.thelocal.se/8277/20070824/

    "Greens call for professional army"
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2008
  14. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    So let's summarize it, if it is other countries like Sweden, Turkey, Italy or Poland, than it is a professional army, if it is the USA it is volunteer army. Got it!!!

    I guess my European background is showing...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538
    If perhaps military men were paid lavishly and given incentives then it would be a profesional army. The majority of the people who join do it because they feel it's their duty to give something back to their country.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Umm I said nothing about America.

    If you cannot leave when you want to, its not a volunteer position. If I sign a contract with a company that I will work for them for a minimum of three years, thats not a volunteer position.
     
  17. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    Uh...I guess I'll point out AGAIN the English word "volunteer" originally referred explicitly to a person who chose to join the army. Which is why most dictionaries will still list "a person who joins the military of their own free will" as one of the definitions of the word, along with all the more modern meanings. Historical usage, modern dictionaries, and modern usage all seem to agree that an army made up of people who choose to join is a volunteer army.
     
  18. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538

    Nasor, it's best to give up. People enjoy hating America more than they love understanding logic.
     
  19. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,535
    So when you meant professional you meant the military and spacestation occupants?

    Security is not the issue. The issue is money and what it looks like if people do not want to serve more.

    If the interests of the American people are served by a war, you will have enough soldiers. If you don't it is time to question issues like remuneration, the morality of the war, treatement of returning soldier, what soldiers are being encouraged to do in that war, etc.
     
  20. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,535
    No they have jobs,

    jobs they can quit.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Thats interesting, I did not know that. Do you have an original source? Does it say anything about commissions and ability to leave? Are mercenaries volunteers?
     
  22. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Hmm were those soldiers also allowed to leave of their free will?
     

Share This Page