Theists in severe decline.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    At a certain point you have to start talking in terms of something greater than caricatures of religion or the philosophy (if you can call it that) peddled by jehovah's witnesses.
     
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  3. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Call yourself a church and you don't take advantage of the gulible????
    Not even worthy of calling yourself a pew

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  5. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    I think it's quite unreasonable to believe that the universe was made for us because the evidence shows that it's clearly not.

    Fact is the universe is pretty hostile to life and we can't even leave this damn planet and go someplace else.
     
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  7. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    As long as we're responding to caricatures like you and Jan Ardena, that's hard to do. When you're talking to a duck, you have to quack.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Then a lot of dictionaries and textbooks and so forth will need correction.
    You'll have to tell the Navajo, for example, that they don't have a religion - only a "quasi" religion. (You would have company - there are Navajo thinkers who have taken that stance after being raised in missionary schools).
    You see ritual, prayer, worship, monks and shamans and spiritual leaders, dedicated buildings and shrines and sacred places or objects, established social norms and traditions for dealing with the spiritual aspect of human life and the world, and you don't see religion?
    Most people - including the body of speakers who determine the meanings of English words - do.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That's a ways off. We're still dealing with guys like you and Jan.
     
  10. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    How can you co-opt what is naturally human? Are those who espouse religion not human?
     
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  11. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Your invidious remarks don't grant you a "we" status.
     
  12. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    No doubt you see it as a tough job, but someone has to do it, eh?
     
  13. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Further evidence that you struggle to take discussion points beyond caricature.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I think you would first have to stop using strawmen to argue against atheism.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Look at how they did it, and still do it where not prevented.
    If it's hard to see, maybe extend from an easy example such as marriage.
    1) Not "religion" - theistic religion, especially Abrahamic, was specified for a reason directly thread-relevant.
    2) This is a very interesting response, because it is apparently sincere (not Jan-style trolling) and at the same time gets the post it is responding to backwards* in a manner (the leading or "Fox" question) typical of Abrahamic theists on science forums - including the current trolls.

    This suggests that it is the religious stance itself producing the bizarrely wrongheaded and gibberish posts, not the character flaws typical of trolls and only coincidently overt Abrahamic theist. (There remains the dominating personal disparagement feature, absent from the sincere).

    *(The implication of my post was that these theistic religions act to absorb or take over these competing ways of addressing spiritual matters, if possible restricting this natural human stuff to overtly religious people acting in the context of the one religion,

    so that those demonstrating allegiance to that religion and dedicating their stuff to that religion were favored, while those not religious were suppressed - sometimes quite brutally, now as well as in the past.
    so that all great art and music and so forth would be in accordance with, reifying, and seen to be emerging from, that religion;
    and no widely influential human address of spirituality would be separate from and not found in that religion ("Christian rock", etc).

    So the question should be "Are those who do not espouse theistic religion not human?")
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  16. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    My strawman being?
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    And you dont think there is any need to address it at this level?
    Alex
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Look this is a disussion with theism a central theme and thefore there is no need for evidence.☺
    Claims may be made and established on the basis that they feel good☺

    But you certainly make a compelling case for the possibility it was not just created for humans...who would have thought☺

    Alex
     
  19. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Not needed

    Did you not understand I invoked Humpty Dumpty?

    Correct

    However I really fail to follow the logic of people who do not believe in any god(s), quasi or otherwise, can be said to belong to a religion

    The above refers to those for some reason class atheists as belonging to a religion

    Sure some take part in rituals as a personal activity as I guess they have some thoughts about a higher power (But not a god)

    Personal view - sure there is a higher power

    In scientific language called physics and not a single puny human minion has ever broken one of the rules

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  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Never the less I think religion holds things together for many and I for one should not focus on the negatives as all organisations will have their problems and really what can you do to curb the desire of any group to expand its base.

    Preach peace and harmony and positive virtues but dont expect to have others accept your world view and all will be fine.

    I wonder ....
    Atheists dont believe any one has established a God and probably think wider than say a believer who knows there is only one God...theirs...so all the others never get thought of...but I guess to a degree to an atheist they just have one more on the list that they dont accept.

    So Jan possibly will reject Thor and the rest of them as say I would but stops at that approach when he goes to analyse his God.

    Thats what people do...they have their reasons.

    So theists could be 99.9 % atheist when you think of the large number of Gods they dont beleive in.

    Anyways Jan and Musica seem like nice people so perhaps we should all look for things we agree on...could that be so difficult☺
    Alex
     
  21. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Sure.
    Defeating a caricature of an idea just renders one's self as a caricature.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    With angry, petulant, fact-free positions like that - no wonder theists are in severe decline.
     
  23. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Specifically?
    IIRC it was you who was trying to tie an egyptian polytheistic connection to christianity and spouting some revelation about the Buddhist God, Brahma.

    If you find yourself on the receiving end of anger and ridicule, its because you frequently grant your self a license to be fact-free. And, quite frankly, that has zero relevance you being atheist, theist or anything in between. Perhaps you could say it reflects on on-site atheism as a creed, since there is a tendency for poor performance in history and philosophy.
     

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