# The universe is a mathematical construct

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Write4U, Dec 6, 2020.

1. ### river

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Agreed , lets .

But to the Physical Objects Themselves , mathematics doesn't matter . Mathematics only matters to us .

Last edited: Apr 6, 2021

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3. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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It doesn't need to, as long as they behave according to the mathematics. There are universal mathematics which are a property of spacetime, and the human interpretation and symbolization of universal mathematics, which are useful only to humans.

A Sunflower does not need to know the Fibonacci Sequence to grow in that most economically efficient evolutionary growth pattern, a naturally evolved mathematical pattern, by natural selection.

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5. ### river

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Mathematics is the consequence of physical things .

To your last statement .

Physically the sunflower did what it does . The mathematical came after the form .

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7. ### river

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Write4U

Why is there a physical form ?

8. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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That's not the point. The point is that it is the most efficient pattern, which emerged from millenia of natural self-forming patterns starting from chaos. In a dynamical environment there can only be relational values guided by mathematical laws.

Don't forget that all of this started in utter chaos and is slowly sorting itself out. There is no such thing as "irreducible complexity". It all starts with a + a = b

9. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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An evolved mathematically arranged pattern for efficient function? Check out the Table of Elements. Beautifully arranged patterns giving each atom its unique values and behavioral properties.

Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
10. ### river

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So the mathematical needs the physical to exist to have a mathematical pattern .

11. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Well you cannot see any pattern unless it is physically expressed. Without stuff there would be no patterns, but the mathematical essence of spacetime would still be an inherent potential of its geometry. I see it as a fundamental Logic, a quasi-intelligent hierarchical ordering of relational values.

In the spacetime fabric there are abstract inherent Vectors and Scalars (logical patterns).

Vector (mathematics and physics)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_(mathematics_and_physics)

Scalar (mathematics and physics)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_(mathematics)

PATTERNS: UNLOCKING THE UNIVERSE

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– Cells make up tissue which make organs which make systems that work together to create humans.
– Similarly organized is our universe – Suns make up galaxies which together form nebula which work together to create our universe.

http://juliansarokin.com/patterns-unlocking-the-universe/#

Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
12. ### river

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Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
13. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Without space time would not exist. Without mathematics the universe would be in perpetual physical chaos. Order would not exist.

14. ### river

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And what does the mathematics analyze to come to this conclusion of yours ?

15. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Mathematics don't analyze anything. It is an emergent result of the spacetime geometry. It's the way thing work.
Humans analyze things using human symbolized mathematics to understand the way things work within the spacetime geometry.

16. ### river

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Highlighted

What is spacetime geometry based on ?

17. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Its natural self-assembly into patterns, like fractals, spirals , meanders, networks...etc.

Complex patterns arise through spontaneous symmetry breaking in dense homogeneous networks of neural oscillators

Abstract
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep22074

18. ### river

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Which are ALL based on the Physical .

For these neural oscillators to exist , the neural needs to exist . And for the neural to exist the physical exists in the first place . Without the physical there is No " neural " .

19. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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River, it's an equation.

20. ### river

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Not based on the physical , obviously .