The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. douwd20 Registered Senior Member

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    Trump has destroyed the supposed "wall" between politics and the "rule of law" with astonishing speed and vigor. All under the neglectful if not approving eye of Congress. The same Congress that held hearing after hearing, investigation after investigation while spending millions of taxpayer dollars hunting down Hillary's emails.
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    #antiAmerican | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    Click because freedom can die.

    What seems striking about that is the degree to which people around the president are not only unable to explain the situation to him, but are also utterly incapable of preventing Mr. Trump from harming himself, the White House, and the executive branch alike. Donald Trump is not competent to serve as president, and members of his administration are unable to protect the nation and world from his dangerous instability.

    Americans, presently, seem even more caught up in their not even ephemeral, but, rather, click and swipe tumble through vapid expectation, than ever. As a market circumstance this is what it is, but its living effect is, generally, a curiosity in the moment because some days it seems like there are Trump's open supporters, Congressional Republicans, with the effect that Trump's base is unshakeably committed, everyone else knows how this goes, and Congressional Republicans are as reluctant as Republicans ever are to move forward and do the right thing.

    But it's true, we all know this ends in an ugly pardonfest that diminishes the White House for a generation at least, especially since these are Republicans and conservatives we're talking about, and the routine by which the GOP lies and bawls and complains until they get what they want and then complain about getting what they want and blaming Democrats still actually works. Donald Trump will leave office with 25-33% approval, but somewhere between 40-45% of the public will complain of judgmental elitist Democrats driving an elected president from office, even if the lever is Articles drafted and approved in the Republican-led House, and facing trial in the Republican-led Senate.

    It almost sounds like a pretty good gamble, but the problem is the damage done if they win out, because the way it usually works is that Republican sins become the basis for Republican complaints intended as stumbling blocks for political opposition, and significant portions of the nation reward this behavior over and over again. Consider, for instance, the question of what happens if President Trump fires Special Counsel Robert Mueller; the only reason we face that prospect is Republicans. No, really. They sicced a tobacco lobbyist on President Bill Clinton, running down every half-wit conspiracy theory they could find as if it was true, largely thanks to the specific character assasination squad, called Project Arkansas, financed by right-wing newspaper publisher Richard Scaife. And while it is true that part of what Bill Clinton's disgrace gets us is strong initiative against aspects of male chauvinist privilege by which, as sick as such statements read, Bill Clinton's raping behavior over the course of decades was not viewed by empowered society as rape, the grotesque truth of the matter is that American society would not make such a stand for the sake of our wives or daughters, for our mothers or sisters, for the sake of human rights and human decency—we did it by accident, as an unintended ramification of wanting to take a piece out of a Democrat.

    It's an incredible historical legacy; twenty years later, we elected a boasting sexual assailant, and as everyone argues over voter frustration we ought not be surprised to find that among men Mr. Trump's election can be seen as a culmination of two decades spent complaining about what's wrong with women and how unfair it is that the rules keep changing.

    Oh, right. Special counsel. So, President George W. Bush leads the nation to war for false pretense, and Republicans, controlling the House, saw the law empowering congressional appointment of a special prosecutor expire on the grounds that the American people were tired of special investigations.

    And that's why we have the question of what happens if Donald Trump fires Robert Mueller, because Republicans wanted to one-time a Democratic president without any regard for history or future. And after a bunch of men stood up and denounced President Clinton's predatory sexual behavior, it might seem utterly stupid to say but it is actually true they are now pissed off that society took them up on the proposition and settled the question that such predatory sexual behavior is in fact inappropriate.

    In a quarter-century, what will our discourse about presidential prerogative actually look and sound like?

    Donald Trump is wrecking the presidency; when he is finished, Republicans will hold up the evidence that government just does not and simply cannot work, and, yeah, forty percent of voters will accept that argument.

    Ironically, the longer Speaker Ryan waits to do his damn job, the less time Republicans will have to paper over the holes in the walls and try to pass a legislative agenda.

    Then again, given the quality of work we've seen from Congressional Republicans on health care, it's likely even Republicans understand that governing best by governing least is generally a safety standard when they are in charge.

    And, yes, recalling Zippergate seems silly in a certain way, but as a generic proposition: Break a bunch of stuff, get one intimation of a whiff of a rumor of a silver lining out of it, and see that ptential become the impetus for breaking shit all over again.

    The Constitution of the United States of America relies, to a certain degree, on good faith, and I suppose we can thank George Fox for that; it works well enough, even in times of dire distress or duress, as long as everyone plays their part in good faith. Republicans have been working in such a manner as to continually assail and vandalize good faith, for decades, and this is the result.

    But, yeah, the black man didn't wreck the place, so they'll have the white supremacist do it. They bawled that the woman would wreck the place, but sent a sex predator to wreck the place because wrecking the place is what they always want.

    It's a weird now-more-than-everism, but they feel desperate. One of the reasons our political spectrum looks so strange to so many people around the world is that it isn't really liberal and conservative; rather, it is an interest coalition attempting to attend civilized society, and an interest coalition that wants to call the whole thing off.

    We all know this ends with a nasty heap of pardons, so, really, Republicans at this point are just enabling Trump's destruction of American prestige, good faith, and governance. The President of the United States is still doing Vladimir Putin's work. That horrid roundabout on sexual exploitation is, unfortunately, instructive; we are about to run the basic proposition of a United States government through a similar reckoning.

    President Donald Trump has just disqualified himself from office; he has sworn to uphold the Constitution, but pardoned a direct attack against it. Whatever else we might hold up to disqualify him, the pardon of Joe Arpaio is President Trump's formal abnegation of his oath of office.

    And then the world endured a victory won against an insane man and his cohorts; but once the war was done, blind fear prevailed, and years of darkness came—freedom was nailed. We become the enemy when freedom dies for security. We let our freedom die; we let it wane. We feared an enemy atomic rain. But what was on our minds, what we became: We and the enemy, we are the same. We become the enemy when freedom dies for security.

     
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  5. superstring01 Moderator

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    You wrote: "And that's why we have the question of what happens if Donald Trump fires Robert Mueller ...."

    I wanna sayyyyy ... more of the same? We're --what?-- seven months into his presidency of OH so much promise and hope (snerk). What was the laundry list of things that were gonna' happen? Repeal of the ACA with a favorably controlled Congress? Check. Lower taxes? Check. Fund/build the wall? Check.

    As my British friend said to me --between fits of laughter at our politics-- "I was worried until about June. Then I realized that Trump isn't just incompetent, he's roundly hated by so many in his own party that they have to play a game of twister just to explain their own association with him." I want the innept fucker where he is until January 20th, 2021 because Pence at least has some political scruples and is far more frightening.

    You said: "In a quarter-century, what will our discourse about presidential prerogative actually look and sound like?"

    When we're not rocking back in forth, crying in dark corners, I'd like to hope we'll look back on this period of time the way we do the Nixon administration. Maybe worse. Who knows. I'm not hoping that we can actually LEARN from it since, well, the hyper-drifting gap between rich/poor began in the mid 70's, corresponding directly with our accelerating efforts at dismantling the New Deal and we haven't apparently learned that lesson either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    For some reason, people continue to imagine that the danger of Trump is his political agenda or the manner in which he performs the duties of the Presidency.

    He has no political agenda, properly so called. He has no interest in the duties of the Presidency. And measuring his competence by evaluating his accomplishment of a political agenda he does not have, or his ability to do what he has no interest in, not only provides a false sense of security with regard to his capabilities otherwise but distracts from the danger of the Republican Congress in those arenas.

    Trump has established that the Republican Congress cannot even effectively oppose him, let alone remove him, without destroying itself. And he has gone a long way toward shoring up his biggest weakness, which is his lack of a base of support among the military command.

    Trump entered the White House with essentially no political power of his own other than the loyalty of the Republican voter base. He has gained, not lost, power since then. He's getting stronger, not weaker.
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Agrees to a point.. a person suffering NPD has only one political agenda though and that is to promote admiration to and for himself....regardless of who is doing the admiration.

    As you have rightly noted he is now surrounded by ex- military generals and will by default garner general military support. However I wonder why these ex-generals would entertain aligning themselves and assisting someone so incompetent and undisciplined.
    Is it because they seek to salvage what they can of the presidency for the sake of the national security or is it to help Trump promote his NPD agenda?
    My guess is that they are in it to "secure the nation" .... but may be I am being too generous.

    His greatest weakness IMO is his family and it could be his family and his fear for their safety (future) that is being used as leverage to gain Trumps compliance to the alt right, white supremacy narrative. (Imaginary ( his paranoia ) or other wise)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    His "compliance" with that narrative long predates his family. Any of his families.
     
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    From what I understand of your posts, you are suggesting that Trump is running a very deliberate, clever and calculated campaign towards establishing a fully blown fascist dictatorship. Slowly and steadily eroding the institutions, checks and balances that safeguard against such.
    ( after all, this appears to be all he has achieved so far....)
    Am I correct?
    by extension:
    You are suggesting that he is fundamentally a neo-Nazi, Aryian promoter, that has among other subterfuges used his daughters marriage to a Jew as a cover story. That he is an utter sociopath lacking any semblance of empathy or genuine self honesty.
    Am I correct?

    Effectively Adolf Hitler incarnated....

    NPD <=> dictatorship, is the ultimate expression..
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    If you were Trump and had this secret fascist dictatorship agenda would you be happy with your progress so far?
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    None of my posting about Trump's behavior assumes big picture deliberation or conscious calculation on anyone's part, including Trump's. He has had a lifetime to develop his skills and learn what works, and he learns quickly from experience - the level at which he is self-aware and calculating these days is an interesting question, but any answer including "none" would fit what we see.

    As far as the Aryan stuff, or anything involving a coherent philosophy, organized intellectual viewpoint, overarching view of the world and its people, that seems unlikely in Trump's case. He's more or less entirely reactionary, as far as is visible to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Intuitive intelligence at work perhaps?
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Just a note ab0ut intuitive intelligence.
    After thinking on it, I believe Trump offers a terrific example or demonstration of what this pseudo psychological term means.
    Essentially it suggests that volition (deliberate) is but the tip of the intuitive iceberg and that most of human behavior is intuitively derived via various subconscious or subliminal means leaving the actor to perform a sort of volition improvisation over an intuitive playing field.

    Example: Walking (intuitive) and talking..(volition)

    In a normal healthy person this functions well, however in the case of Trump we see contradictions continuously coming to the for. Perhaps the aberrations are his minds compensation for his sometimes brilliant intuitive genius basically scaring the sh*t out of him? (fearing his own potential)

    It would also explain his intriguing pseudo Christian religious beliefs and devotions, as he would probably see his intuition as being divinely inspired, hence the comment early in his campaign about shooting someone in Times Square and getting away with it.

    A link that may be useful:
    https://thehumancompany.com/2009/05/definition_what_is_intuitive_intelligence/
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The first reaction to this was to post it in the "appeasement" thread - as an example of how a pro refuses to appease.

    But it would fit as well in this thread, as an example of what Trump's presidency is going to look like in real time:
    https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pen...ps-calls-for-more-study-1.485073#.WaaRWRSxW16

    "More study", followed by expert oversight and design of actual implementation. Maybe ten or fifteen years worth?

    From the look of this, hell is going to freeze over before the generals let this bozo fuck with actual soldiering. That's the upside. The downside is that under Trump the US is going to be losing civilian control of the military, concomitant with its already far-progressed loss of civilian control over the major "intelligence" services.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Y'know, there's a part of me that remembers the interview about Flynn, and now looks at all this, and shrugs, and recalls an article when Pence was announced as veep candidate noting that he wasn't particularly smart, or something approximately like that↗; but there is another part of me that shrugs and says he's vice president ... and ... er ... ah ... that's supposed to mean something.

    Or, you know. Something. Approximately like that.

    Nonetheless, the msnbc↱ segment was pretty cool.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    O'Donnell, Lawrence. "Mueller may have new evidence of Trump obstruction". msnbc. 1 September 2017. msnbc. 2 September 2017. http://on.msnbc.com/2gySDBu
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The racial aspect remains - the mechanism by which Trump avoids accountability for all the rest.
    Ta-Nehisi Coates lays it out, in Atlantic magazine:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...irst-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  20. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Trump has made a mature speech worthy of his post to the UN with astute observations such as 'rocket man' and 'loser' terrorists.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    He has just threatened the slaughter of 10's of millions of civilians as a way of showing just how bad he is failing as a world leader and how twisted with fear his supporters are. Pathetic!
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Personally, I like the msnbc segment title: "Trump joins history's list of unhinged speakers at UN":

    Today, our president made his first speech before the UN General Assembly; he called Kim Jong Un, "Rocket Man". He threatened to, quote, "totally destroy", North Korea, and he said big portions of the world are, in his words, "going to hell". He also bragged about his election victory, and the stock market. The president's chief of staff did not appear to enjoy it, and just in case you thought that was just one bad picture, here's another one.

    (Maddow↱)
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Maddow, Rachel. "Trump joins history's list of unhinged speakers at UN". The Rachel Maddow Show. msnbc. 19 September 2017. msnbc.com. 20 September 2017. http://on.msnbc.com/2xhcXM1
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    The POTUS also spent considerable time berating the UN for the unjust burden the USA was carrying for global security.
    Many times referring to the disproportionate contribution the USA is making to the UN.
    Well I got news for you Mr. Trump.
    Given the sheer scale of USA global interests perhaps the UN should increase USA contributions and not decrease them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017

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