The scourge of TDS

Discussion in 'Politics' started by billvon, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Lately many Republicans (specifically Trump supporters) have been feeling under pressure. For years they've been smugly saying "Trump is doing a GREAT job! The economy is good and everything is under control." Over the past few weeks, though, it's clear that the economy is not doing so well, and that it's due, in part, to Trump's ham-handed bungling of the US Coronavirus response. From cutting funding to the CDC's pandemic programs, to appointing a proven healthcare bungler as "coronavirus czar", to turning down the offer of WHO assistance with testing, there's no doubt that much of the economic meltdown is due to his mishandling of the crisis. And if any more proof were needed, one of the biggest and fastest slides the Dow has ever seen happened while he was talking about Coronavirus and getting most of his facts wrong.

    Trump supporters have always exhibited a bit of Trump Defense Syndrome, sometimes called Trump Derangement Syndrome. It occurs when otherwise intelligent people try to justify Trump's illogical and ignorant behavior. A great example happened recently on another forum during Trump's announcement of travel restrictions. During his speech he also announced that "these prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but various other things as we get approval. Anything coming from Europe to the United States is what we are discussing." (This is also one of the primary reasons the Dow tanked.) Someone on the other forum questioned the wisdom of halting trade and cargo, since you can't catch Coronavirus from cargo. The Trump supporter in question immediately started defending his decision, saying "I guess Democrats would rather get cheap wine than stop the spread of Coronavirus, because they don't give a shit about human beings." A few hours later Trump walked back his ill-considered announcement. That put the Trump supporter in a tough position. His equating allowing trade to "not giving a shit about human beings" was right there in black and white, and it would seem to indicate that Trump did not give a shit about human beings. This posed a dilemma for the poor Trumpie - admit he was wrong and walk the comment back, or double down?

    Of course he chose to double down. "I wasn't talking about cargo, I was talking about wine, which can carry disease!" When enough people pointed out that wine was one of the few substances that was, in fact, a disinfectant, he switched to "I was joking. You don't know what humor is, do you."

    This sort of deranged behavior is becoming more and more common among Trump supporters as they have to disavow their earlier statements. The great many cases where Trump supporters have equated Trump's competence to stock market indexes, for example, are coming back to bite them. So they are now making up more and more bizarre explanations. "It's a temporary blip." "The president has nothing to do with the stock market!" "It was Obama." I fear this will get worse before it gets better.

    In the meantime, identifying TDS sufferers will allow people to tailor their responses appropriately. Look for these warning signs:

    - Obsequious flattery of Trump for no good reason - "he is handling this better than anyone else could!"
    - Fabrication of evidence. "Obama/Clinton/Soros sabotaged the CDC to harm Trump."
    - Attempted rapid and illogical subject changes. "Well, but Biden's son did something illegal in Russia. What, did you forget about that?"
    - The trifecta of asking for examples, asking for sources, then disregarding the sources. "You can't point to a single thing he did wrong." "Who said he did something wrong? Show me the proof!" "I don't like that proof, so I will substitute my own reality here."

    Unfortunately there's no real cure for this, and until Trump is replaced, these diehards will slip deeper and deeper into this sort of derangement. It will be a long six months.
    zgmc likes this.
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    It will greatly outlast Trump's presidency, possibly by generations.

    Systemic corruption - and the mistrust it sows - pretty much always escalates, virtually never deescalates.

    If the enemy drops his sword and draws his gun, causing you draw your gun and disarm him, you are unlikely to holster your gun again in favour of your sword.

    One of the concerns is that - even if the Dems get in, they're not going to roll back all the liberties Trump has taken with presidential privilege - he has paved the way for them to use them for their own ends.
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    It has already outlasted Reagan's presidency by a full generation, and W's presidency by twenty years.

    The Republican voter handled W's collapse partly by constructing a hide they called the "TEA Party", camouflaged in fiction and historical ignorance (they got the motivations of the original Boston one completely backwards, etc), which they interposed between themselves and their former adulation of W&Cheney,

    thereby breaking any connection between their behavior now and their behavior in the past, or the Republican Party of 2004 and the Republican Party of 2016. By now one could almost overlook the very existence of that 2004 administration, as if nothing happened in the US between January of 2001 and January of 2009.

    Amnesia has become a sort of Prime Directive of the Republican Party, and it seems likely to remain a central feature as long as the Republican hold on power remains incomplete and vulnerable to reversals of fortune. If Trump is turned out of office in November, and actually leaves, the R expectation is that he can be buried and forgotten as completely as Cheney's office safe, anonymous dealings with no-bid war contractors, complicity in setting up an American archipelago of torture prisons, self enrichment while in office, and defiance of DOJ and Congressional inquiry on almost comically spurious grounds (he both was and was not acting as the VP in his oil company dealings, for example - literally, in the same month).
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    After what happened to Obama they'd be fools not to.
    But that never stopped them before.
  8. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    From the horses mouth of a former sufferer. Yeah, you think it's a right-wing myth or faulty view of reality because you suffer from it.
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    or more likely childish people like you can't handle your idols being criticized. trump derangement syndrome(as a left wing malady) is what you nutters like you call liking the rule of law.
  10. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    What? Your cognitive dissonance couldn't bear to watch it and try to refute any of a former leftist's own personal experience?
    I criticize Trump, and didn't vote for him in 2016 because of the sticking points of my own criticism. Have you ever given him credit for anything positive?
  11. Benson Registered Senior Member

    Wow, that has to be one of the most useless political posts I've read on American politics. I take it you don't live in America or you just posted it to bait your fellow countrymen.
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Wrong on both counts.

    For a good example of TDS let's go to one of his strongest supporters, Sean Hannity. Initially he followed Trump's lead to a tee. There was no problem, it would be over soon, anyone concerned about it is hysterical, it's all the media scaring people.

    Mar 9: “This [coronvirus preparation] is scaring the living hell out of people — I see it, again, as like, let’s bludgeon Trump with this new hoax.”
    Mar 11: shows people going after toilet paper, captioning it "“coronavirus hysteria."

    Finally one of Trump's advisers got through his many layers of conceit, self-interest and science denial and Trump realized that this could be bad. He said as much. Hannity was then in a tough position - how to reconcile that with what he already said? TDS to the rescue!

    Mar 17: everyone should “take the following crucial precautions over the next couple of weeks. Do it why? Because we love our grandmothers, our grandfathers, our older moms and dads. They are the most vulnerable. They are the most at risk.” That's Hannity scaring the living hell out of people, something he had just condemned CNN for.

    Mar 18: "By the way, this program has always taken the coronavirus seriously. We’ve never called the virus a hoax.”

    Unfortunately for him, the Internet captures things he's said in the past, and so his lies were exposed.

    (This is the cue for all Trump's supporters to start saying "he never said the VIRUS was a hoax! You just misunderstood!" Again - TDS.)
  13. Benson Registered Senior Member

    It's a mighty broad brush you use.

    May I correct you. The Derangement Syndrome phrase was coined by Charles Krauthammer. This related to George W. Bush's presidency. It's when a normal person is paranoid over the policies of a president and the existence of the president. There was ODS as well.

    As for a Devotion Syndrome and Defense Syndrome, these are not official, they're just used by some on the Left to try and rile Right wingers.

    As for supporters of Trump, Bush, Obama etc.. having one vision that all Trump or Bush or Obama supporters are the same, is ill judged.

    Some voters can often vote for the opposition because their candidate is dreadful. Others chose Trump because they were fed up with the direction of the US. Others vote and then get on with their lives. Others are embarrassed the way Trump acts, but that's Trump's style. Others are staunch Trump supporters and vehemently defend Trump.

    I think you think all Trump supporters are the latter. You are wrong, hence why your op was totally flawed and was purely scripted for a response from a staunch Trump supporter. Are there any on here?

    I voted for Boris Johnson simply because he gets things done. Not because of his hair, his vocabulary etc.. but he's getting on with the job and I don't follow the news to any extent regarding him. I'm a Boris voter, not a supporter.

    And just like in America, there are many Trump voters and only an element of staunch supporters the way you described them.

    Trump gets things done. I wish he would wind his neck in. Think before speaking. Quit some of crazy talk. Listen to his staff and get off Twitter. But if I lived in America, I would vote for Trump, I mean, look at the alternative!
  14. Bells Staff Member

    Aside from yourself that is?

    Instead, on March 3, from the lectern at 10 Downing Street, he boasted of visiting a hospital where coronavirus patients were being treated: "I shook hands with everybody, you'll be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands with everybody."

    Daily press conferences and Cabinet meetings continued long after it became clear the virus was circulating in Westminster. As late as the day before his diagnosis, he took part in Prime Minister's Question Time. Given the known incubation period of the disease, Johnson may potentially have exposed dozens of lawmakers to the virus.

    But then, Johnson is a libertarian. He chafed at the restrictions on his own life, as he struggled in the preceding weeks to accept the prospect of imposing a lockdown on the free country he loves. He kept Britain's schools open long after other nations, including neighboring Ireland and France. The Cheltenham horse racing festival, which attracts crowds of more than 250,000, went ahead on March 10, as his team insisted the virus was unlikely to be spread outdoors. That day there were 10 deaths from Covid-19 in the UK. Ten days on there have been more than 1,000.

    He got things done alright...


    He gets things done by hiring the best people:

    That report says the US government received its first formal notification of the outbreak in China on January 3 – and for 70 “squandered” days after that, did little to prepare.

    Part of that is China’s fault. The country’s government repeatedly covered up the threat of the virus until January 20, when it finally admitted human-to-human transmission was happening and moved towards locking down Wuhan.

    But China cannot be blamed for the ineptitude that followed those initial days.

    By mid-January, Mr Trump’s Health Secretary Alex Azar had started to mobilise officials in his department to deal with a potential outbreak. However, he failed to bring the issue to the attention of the person who mattered most – the President.

    He gets things done by paying attention:

    On January 22, the day after the first coronavirus case in the US was identified, CNBC asked Mr Trump whether he was worried about a pandemic.

    “No, not at all,” he said.

    “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

    That comment was the first of many downplaying the virus.

    He really gets things done by, well, something something borders:

    In late January, White House officials were fixated on stopping infected people from travelling to the US from China. So fixated, in fact, that they barely discussed America’s dangerously depleted stockpile of ventilators and other personal protective equipment.

    Their work culminated in a travel ban barring non-citizens who had recently been in China from entering the country.

    Hundreds of thousands of people had already made the trip by that point. Still, Mr Trump told Fox News the ban had “pretty much shut it (the virus) down”.

    It took him another month to ban travel from Europe.

    And don't even get me started on how well he gets things done by being good with numbers:

    Throughout February, officials dithered and argued behind the scenes while the President, in front of the cameras, continued to brush off the threat.

    “We’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up,” he claimed during a press conference on February 26, as cases within the US started to rise. He said there could be just “one or two” infected people in the near future.

    There were 60 confirmed cases at that point. A month later, there were more than 10,000.

    As for advanced planning, he's the best at getting things done:

    As the pandemic reached that critical point tipping point, three shortages hampered America’s ability to respond properly.

    We mentioned two of them already. There aren’t enough ventilators, and there isn’t enough protective equipment. The Trump administration’s slow response is largely to blame.

    A review of federal purchasing contracts by AP shows federal agencies waited until mid-March – not January or February, but March – to start placing bulk orders of N95 masks, ventilators and other equipment needed by frontline health workers.

    By that point, hospitals in several states were already treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment, and were pleading for shipments from the national stockpile.

    “We basically wasted two months,” Kathleen Sebelius, health and human services secretary during the Obama administration, told AP.

    The lack of a federal stockpile has left states competing with each other to secure the limited amount of equipment on the market.


    In those crucial early months, health officials were not able to track the disease’s spread across the country, because of the third crucial shortage – and the government’s most disastrous mistake. There were not enough test kits.

    Mr Trump rejected an early offer from the World Health Organisation to provide test kits, instead tasking the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) with developing its own. The test it produced proved to be faulty.

    So, for the entirety of February, there were practically no tests available. The virus was allowed to spread undetected, and the US has been playing catch-up ever since.

    Why vote for competence when you can have gross incompetence instead, because that Trump, sure does get things done!

    The United States already has the largest recorded coronavirus outbreak in the world. It doesn’t know where the virus is, because for weeks, testing was far too sporadic to track it. Hospitals do not have enough equipment to deal with a surge in demand, because the federal government waited until mid-March to address its shortages.

    And at the top, making the decisions, is a President who did not take the problem seriously for months – and who is still far more optimistic than his own government’s experts.

    Dude's a do'er alright.. He did so much, he ensured the US would lead the world in cases...

    And hey, he's even done so much to remind the world that he's a ratings hit:
  15. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    That's what they said about Mussolini.
  16. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Can you name one single thing he's "gotten done?"
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

    I am using it for Defense Syndrome.
    Funny! Just like Trump Derangement Syndrome isn't official and is used by some on the right to try to rile left wingers!
    Yes, he does. The most corrupt administration - ever. He got the longest jail terms - and the most indictments - for his administration in recent history. And as of today, he got 10,662 Americans "done."
    exchemist likes this.
  18. Benson Registered Senior Member

    On forums, I don't bother reading long posts.
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Pretty clear you don't bother reading anything that's long. A common trait among Trump supporters.
    exchemist likes this.
  20. Benson Registered Senior Member

    They just waffle on crap.

    I don't support Trump. I agree with some of his actions, and I disagree with others. If you're American, you won't understand that, what - so - ever.
  21. Benson Registered Senior Member

    Derangement syndrome of a president is official. Deal with it.
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Because Americans are all stupid? A common belief of Republicans. (And Trump has even explicitly stated that he likes em that way.)
    OK. If you insist, you are deranged.
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Especially when they are detailed explanations that pull the rug out from under your off hand claim?

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