The Role of the Police

of course there are a lot of people that do the wrong thing, but isn't the reason police are given power because its their job to do the right thing? if the police aren't doing the right thing then they shouldn't be police, and we have no obligation to respect them.

 

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But most of the time the police do the right thing it is only the media that makes it seem otherwise. Like I stated before the media could have just used the two anglers that helped save one and tried to save the other but the media had to bring up something that made the story take another twist , to make the police look bad even if they weren't really police after all. I wonder why the media always does that?

 

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Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Nothing important happens!

Cosmictraveler:

I wanted to run some potential headlines by you:

• Sheriff's Deputy Completes Tricky Paperwork Without Error
• City Police Did Not Wreck Any Squad Cars Today
• Nobody Had Sex in Police Garage Thursday
• State Trooper Takes Court Oath, Doesn't Lie
• Sketch Artist Makes Faces
• Police Spokesperson Talks to Press​

The point of those is to wonder what's the big deal about people actually doing their jobs. Is the idea that the police live up to expectation really news? What would that say about our society?

• Officer Saves Life at Donut Shop
• Amid Riot, Deputy Brings Glimmer of Hope
• Suspect Arrested Without Unnecessary Beating​

Okay, that last should have gone in the first set, but still, when the police are doing their job, something else usually warrants our attention. For instance, the WTO riot in Seattle. The riot itself would have been newsworthy. That the police essentially started it? That's pretty important, don't you think? And what of the deputy who couldn't be fired for misconduct? As a citizen, it's important to know that the sheriff can't fire his deputies for misconduct in the middle of a riot. Theoretically, the riot cops can go looting in the middle of a riot, and there's nothing to be done about it. Sorry it makes the cops look bad, but yes, it's something we need to know. In the aftermath, when the police demanded the power to spy on people in their homes ... is that newsworthy? Whose fault is it that the demand was such a huge leap? ("We couldn't be bothered to go out to Direct Action Network's camp and check out what they were telling people, so we need to be able to spy on people in their homes.")

I guess I would respond to the media question by asking one of my own: Should the news be nothing but warm fuzzies?

The picture of the little boy giving a thank-you card to the officer who saved his life gets filed under human interest. The story about the police running an escort service in a sting effort (manufacturing crime) while actual crimes await investigation? That one gets filed under important news.

Cops getting laid at the station house, or leaving their gun in their mistress' car? Well, that answers the question of why it takes so long for them to show up.

It's like people accusing the media of being too hard on Bush. What would we think if we woke up to a headline screaming, "President Avoids Lying at Press Conference"?

At what point do we get to stop applauding the idea that someone can actually do the job they asked to do?

 

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Tiassa, I don't know why you can't see it, but you're simply painting all cops with the same brush because of the actions of only a few!

Again, think about it ...and post it if you wish ....How many cops are there in the USA? And Of that number, how many are bad cops?

See? You're doing exactly what racists do in "proving" why they hate blacks ...they cite a few examples of bad blacks, then using those few examples, it gives them "rational" reasons to hate all blacks. You ban people, or give infractions, for such racist remarks ...yet you're using exactly the same "reasoning" to hate cops.

And, Tiassa, you can continue to cite examples of bad cops, but it proves nothing about cops in general. It only proves that those cops cited are bad cops.

Baron Max

 

That's exactly what Tiassa is doing in this thread ...sensationalizing the actions of a few bad cops, then attempting to imply that, because of those few bad cops, all cops are bad.

Baron Max

 

Baron, do you think the cops who are "bad" are espousing a personal philosophy, not an official policy?

 

Max, how many black people ask to be black?

Can I apply to be a black person?

What are the specific obligations, the job description, of being a black person?

As a black person, do I get paid to arrest people?

I don't think anyone around here is surprised by the notion that I'm not a fan of the cops. After all, they've been the principal agent in a domestic war declared against people like me in support of an economic policy.

But that's actually a separate issue. When you ask for special privilege, elevated respect, and extraordinary responsibility, you are expected to conduct yourself accordingly. That there are good cops and bad cops isn't the issue. That the bad cops should expect the same respect as the good cops is the issue.

The bad cops don't walk around with neon signs on their foreheads that say, "I'm corrupt". When people can't tell the good cops from the bad cops until it's too late, that's a problem. You may not agree, but you have yet to explain why.

It's just one of those weird quirks of mine, I guess. If you're a chef, I expect you to know how to cook. If you're an accountant, I expect you to know how to add and subtract. If you're a cop, I expect you to actually be a benefit to the community. And if your chief will bend over backwards to protect your corruption, why should I treat you any differently than anyone else? If a chef screws the dish, I can choose to never go back to the restaurant. If an accountant blows the ledger, I can get another accountant. If there is corruption in the police department, though ... I can't exactly hire a new one. In theory, I guess I could move to another city, but even if we pretend there's no corruption there, why should that be the solution instead of actually making the cops do their jobs properly?

Max, why don't you set aside your holy crusade for a while and try contributing something positive to a topic for once?

 

?? "..espousing a personal philosophy..."? ...LOL!!!

Sam, geez, what kind of bullshit is that to ask?! ...LOL! It's just a few bad people doing bad things ...that's what bad people do! Seldom, if ever, do bad people "...espouse a personal philosophy..." ...LOL!

Official policy of the police? I'm sure, Sam, that in their official documents, there's all kinds of silly little blurbs to tell the cops how to be bad and fuck over the citizens!! ....LOL!

"Some Muslims are bad and blow up innocent people. Therefore, all Muslims are bad, and it's the official Muslim policy to be bad!"

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Baron Max

 

Don't matter, Tiassa, you're using the same arguments that racists use to "prove" that blacks are no good. The comparisons of the arguments are perfectly valid, and you know they are.

But you can't tell if they're bad cops ....UNTIL AFTER the legal trial which proves that they're bad cops! As such, when a cop asks someone to do something, they should respect the authority .....and not attempt to take the law into their own hands. And most certainly they shouldn't simply assume that the cop is bad, rather than good. Afterall, there are many, many more good cops than bad ones.

Too late?? Too late for what? Legal action is always possible, even after-the-fact. You, on the other hand, seem to assume the worst, then advise everyone else to disobey the law whenever you want to.

I will ....just as soon as you put aside your UN-holy crusade against all cops because of the actions of a few.

Baron Max

 

So another cop, in the same situation as one of the above cops in the opening post, would behave in an entirely different way?

 

"Would have"?? No, but maybe "might have". There's a big difference.

Different people, different actions ....there ain't no telling unless the exact situation is repeated for all cops.

That kid had no right to resist the efforts of the legal authority of the university officials. When asked to relenquish the microphone and sit down, he should have done so. What if everyone did whatever they wanted to do, any time they wanted to?

Baron Max

 

So, basically you agree that most cops in the same situation might have acted the same way?

e.g. other cops in th UoF are also likely to have tasered the student? Which according to you is fulfilment of the role of the police as you see it?

 

Be proud, Max

When I have the same obligations toward black people that I have toward police, your point will mean something.

Interesting. Comparatively, then, would you assert that a rapist has done nothing wrong until he's convicted of rape?

Why introduce that argument? It's beside the point.

The police have extraordinary authority. The people at large--regardless of their skin color--do not, else the cops would just have ordinary authority. If a police officer lies in an incident report, and that report is introduced as evidence, why should the police report enjoy the presumption of greater credibility than the accused? (There are a number of reasons the prosecutor agreed to drop the charges in my case; the credibility of the police report was most likely only a minor factor, if any at all.

That would be comforting, but it's not always true.

• The News Tribune: Brame Tragedy
• Seattle Post-Intelligencer: "Plenty of blame in Crystal's sad story", by Robert L. Jamieson, Jr.
• CBS News: "Tacoma Confidential - Did Keeping Secrets Lead to Murder?"​

Huh?

It's your life. Make of it what you wish, Max.

 

There is also another side to this story. And this side comes from Europe.

Is the police not doing enough?

Not so long ago some people decided to torture someone to death because they had seen it in a movie. They did this in the victim's house. Someone they knew. The victim started screaming. The neighbours called the police. They arrived fairly quickly within 5 minutes.

The police heard the screaming.

and did nothing but ask for backup.

The backup didn't arrive till 20 minutes later.

Needless to say the victim didn't survive THAT long.

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So it seems the problems in Europe and the USA are different and oppose each other somewhat.

Too many trigger happy cops, vs cops that do not act any more.

Of course this was just one example. Can't really state that it is a general phenomena.

 

Not a good example to prove your point. Cops in the US often wait for back up against unknown numbers of criminals who may or may not be armed.

 

... and people in general are not armed in Holland, so the risk for a police officer that carries a gun are minimal in these circumstances compared to the USA.

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NOt anymore. I live in Europe. Criminal have access to guns. Also the kinds of people torturing other people tend to have access to guns.

I don't think this one situation proves that European cops are too slow to act.

Nor is it a common complaint here.

 

Police today are in a conundrum, they are trying to help in many instances but are caught up in a legal web of uncertainty in doing their jobs. They have to evaluate whatever it is they are exposed to in a matter of seconds and take an action or non action that they will be respponsibe for. That action could lead to their demise, being sued, being released from duty, getting hurt or their being called a hero.

 

They didn't.

 

But the cops didn't know that until AFTER the incident was over.

Curious, tho', what would you have had the cops do when they arrived at the scene you outlined above ....and please don't use hindsight to arrive at your answer.

All you know is that screaming is coming from the house ....what would you do? You don't know that it's torture, you don't know how many poeple there are in the house, you don't know if they're armed,..... What would you have the cops do?

Baron Max