The psychology of atheists and theists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Hello Jan,

    I identify as an agnostic not an atheist. It has been my experience that when I discuss theology with an atheist they accuse me of being a theist/apologist. When I discuss theology with theists they accuse me of being an atheist. Just out of curiosity, so I don't make an assumption, which denomination of theology do you adhere to?

    Are you Catholic, Mormon, Seventh day adventist, Muslim, Jewish, "non denominational"......?

    Do you consider the other sects of theology as heretics or brothers and sisters in faith?

    I read the bible and related works from the 3rd-1st B.C.E & 1st-4th C.E. almost every day. I like to think I have a good idea of the original ideas that vyed to become what we now call "Christianity".

    Which do you identify with and are the other variants acceptable as means to finding salvation? I ask because I do not want to assume your views as others have done to me.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Don't hold your breath......

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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    There doesn’t seem to any reason, or evidence that he actually believes in either. I think he accepts them, because they can justify his world view. I accept evolution ( not Darwinian) because it occurs. But I don’t believe in it.
    So in what way do you believe in the universe, and Darwinism?

    Jan.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Hi Acitnoids,

    When we embark on discussions about God, I think we are all agnostic to some degree or other. Simply because there things we don’t know as yet, and things we can’t know.

    Atheist and theist, really have nothing to do with agnosticism, because are fundamental positions. Almost as fundamental as we are human beings. One does not need extra knowledge to believe, or lack belief in God.

    One can claim to be atheist, but not be atheist, and the same goes for one claiming to be theist.

    I think that God, basically, just Is. Theists accept, and believe, atheists don’t, in both counts.

    I accept any denomination that adheres to teaching God consciousness, and teaches how to love God. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of religions out there that don’t.

    I don’t view it like that. I see religions as institutions, controlled by man. It is up to those men what course the religions should go, what they should teach, etc.
    I think it is best to acquaint yourself, as much as you can, with scriptures. In this way you keep in touch with the ancient knowledge, so at you have good idea of what teachings of these religions are, and how much they accept God,
    rather than just accept what you are being told.

    I find that religions adhere to some of the scriptures, and discard others. So I don’t regard them as heritics, but flawed As we all are.

    Just because we believe in God, it doesn’t mean we are any less flawed as people who do not believe in God.

    Religion has become a way of life nowadays.
    Not all religions accept “God” , as God is defined in the scriptures. So they create an idealised version of God.

    Atheists also create an idealised version of God.
    Their God is one that does not match up to their understanding of what God could be, of what they think evidence of God would constitute.

    Are you interested in theism at all?
    Do you think it is possible to discuss God without discussing religion?

    We don’t need to discuss religion.
    As a theist, I accept and believe in God, so don’t worry about assuming my position.

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    Jan.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Is the glass half empty or half full?
     
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    My point is , you are in denial, and everything is based on that denial.

    Theist base their discussion on their belief.
    We don’t need scientific support to back our belief. But you need scientific support to give the impression of justifying your atheism.

    Jan.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Carlin would say; "The glass is too big!"...........

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  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I am not in denial of anything that has been proven true.
    After all, denial is "not accepting something that is proven true".

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  12. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    I see. So you think all people regardless of denomination are qualified for salvation regardless of which "god based ideal" they adhere to?

    Which denominations or religions do not teach the love of God?



    Well from my studies I think every idea ever uttered about God is the work of humans. The scriptures included. What makes Christian scripture more right/correct than say Muslim scripture?

    Which religions would that be exactly?

    That seems to be conjecture and assumption from my point of view. What you say here is the main obstacle I have when talking theology with theists. They assume I have faith in believing that some people do not possess the ability to have faith. That is circular logic IMHO.

    I am interested in the concept of Faith because I have a hard time accepting something without proof. From my point if view, there is exactly the same amount as proof for a God as there is for there being no God. Exactly Zero. Lack of proof has never been counted as proof in science. 100yr search for Gravity waves is a good example.

    Belief in God to me is inseparable from religion because it is based on faith, not proof. Atheists are in the same camp but on the opposite side. As an agnostic I can not say with conviction one way or the other.

    Well, in my many years talking theology with people it has always been helpful to know which faith, if any, the other holds. Based on your discription here can I assume you are "non denominational" or maybe even "new age"?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Anyone else suspicious of Actinoids who seems to have dragged out of Jan a lot of information

    A self serving friend plant?

    Or is my sus radar way off?

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  14. Acitnoids Registered Senior Member

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    Lol ... I want to see what others say. I started posting here in 2008. If I am a plant than that is one hell of a sleeper cell heh.

    Thank you for making my point as to how atheist and theists view my views with suspicion heh
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Not your views regard as suspect

    Nothing not seen before

    It's the extent of the information provided by Jan set radar pings off

    Jan has been on my Iggy list for a long time but during the time I was reading his post they looked nothing like the reply you received

    I'll sit back now and see how it plays out

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  16. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    It seems you are so habituated around the performance of content-free trolling that you find the appearance of sensible dialogue off-putting.
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I guess this is the first question I must asl of myself and answer honestly.
    Being honest I dont like the choices offerred..one or the other is so unnecessarily limiting.. my prefernce leans to not being bound to select one or the other and eat what pleases me.
    I may eat fresh vegies in a salard with some fish at lunch and have some chips or twisties for a snak or because I like the taste of the salt...its like having two girl friends you may like the company of one in the after noon but like to see the other later on the day ... what a terrible choice to make ...you can only see one...no no...and if you marry one because you find you like her more could you not stay friends with the one not as favoured.
    I guess you suggest not to be a believer means you in effect cant be human and my answer honestly is ...I cant imagine the condition you seek to describe because I dont think humanity is only available to believers.
    I dont see faith as nutrition to humanity..I see faith as the junk food that is not good for us...just as sweets rot your teeth faith rots your brain...

    I know you think that hidden at the back of my brain is this little thing that really thinks there is some creator and I supress it...but what you cant understand there is not .... I really believe the universe us eternal and there us no creator.
    I am content to think all life came from simple cells that became more complex over time through a selection process that over time gave rise to all the speicies and that their design merely based on what works such that the species evolved over time.
    The evidence supports the theory so it sounds reasonable.
    In contrast the idea for a believer is a infinite eternal creator came out briefly from forever and created a finite universe planning and designing its form and forming a plan as to how it will all work.
    And the design featured the design of humans, although god was able to rely heavily on his own design as he made humans in his own image we are told.
    I dont believe there is a designer or creator...but evolution does not deal with creation only evolement...same with big bang as it says nothing of creation and deals only with the evolvement of the universe based on our observations.
    There are no observations to suggest there is a god that fit the same class as observations in support of both big bang and evolution theories.
    Anyways Jan I have been up all night two nights doing astrophotography and not sure if I have answered your questions that you would like me to honestly answer so if there is something please ask and I will answer hinestly for myself and share it with you.
    You have a nice day and thank you for your posts.
    Alex
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I have not self-confessed anything, innocuous or not. I have nothing to confess.
    In fact I just received an award for meritorious public service. Emotionally very rewarding.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  19. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Well you did rise to the defense of the apparently self confessed innocuous, so ...
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is a completely false statement. It is incumbent on both theist and atheist to argue from knowledge, a fact which is acknowledged in gnosticism itself.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

    Current knowledge leads us to conclude that the probability of theists being right about an "unknowable God" is about 0.0000001 %, and the probability of atheists being right about the utter lack of justification for coming to such an assumption is about 99.9999999 %........

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps he is using a very clever approach, dealing with the "faith" issue.
    His responses to Jan sounded reasonable to me.......

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  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Your mind works in strange and mysterious ways Musika.
    I did not rise to defend anything. I merely made an observation that B w/S asked what I consider to be an important question in context of the OP title.
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, the Mormons have a divine solution to that problem. SISTERWIVES!!!

    Convenient huh?..........

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    .......Don't you love psychology?.....

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