Hey Infinity, Your mighty zelous (is that how it's spelt?) about this aren't you! OK so there are a lot of things in the bible that don't appear to make sense or match up etc. etc. So my point for those who disagree is that isn't it possible (Indeed even likely) that much of the bible was written by Man for his own purposes? This would cirtainly explain where the apparent inconsistencies come from! Comments? Note: I'm not trying to disprove the existence of a God. Just that 100% faith in bible might actually take you further from the truth. ------------------ Why?
What? What the hell are you talking about? The Bible was written by Man. Then the protestants threw in what you call Hellfire, Brimstone and the Devil, to control your brothers and sisters out of fear. You know what the whole purpose of religion was? Religion was used to control wars when Armies failed. So yes, it did serve a purpose to man! Are you an atheist or what? [This message has been edited by Infinity (edited July 19, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Infinity (edited July 19, 2000).]
I think it'll be easier if I tell you what I'm not. I'm not a christian, I don't believe in the christian God or Christ. For what it's worth I think your right. The Bible and relegion served the purposes of those in power and they bent it and shaped it to make there lives easier and bring themselves more power. However just saying that isn't going to prove anything. And it's only my belif. I have no more evidence of that then Christians do that it was real. My opions and belifs are based on commen sense, logic and an open mind. I'm not an Atheist however because I acknowledge the possibility that there could be some form of power beyond our current understanding. Of course I also acknowledge the possibility that there isn't! ------------------ Why?
Infinity, You really are put on the tracks of atheism by Boris ? Well, I think he will be overly pleased with himself when he comes back from his seclusion... I am an atheist myself but I don't think religion was 'made' or 'conceived' for any pupose of an other. I think it is something very closely related to intelligent thought and must therefor be evolved together with it. Of course religion has been manipulated to serve rather unholy goals but that is something entirely different. Further more I would like to propose a distinction between the belief in a god, afterlife or whatever and religion as a cultural phenomenon. For example the drive and common empathy that is felt by the spectators during a football game is very much a religious feeling. Even the love between to people could be called a religious concept. Given this broad definition, I claim there is no such person on this planet that isn't religious. I also gladly call myself a religious atheist. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ I err, therefore I exist !
Boris has enlightened me of the truths. And so have many others on this board! Who here is smarter than Boris? Huh? Huh? Huh?
Infinity-- I actually think I have little useful to offer, but who knows? Now, with no actual comment toward Boris, per se, it depends on what you call intelligence. As with the example of Boris: I only know him via this site, and have no further idea of his person or character; it could be that, despite the mass of wonderful information he carries in his brain, he might be dysfunctional in most of the rest of his life. To be more neutral I would offer the following: * How many of my friends have worked IT help-desk? Sure we all laugh at those silly e-mails about the technologically-challenged, but when you see coffee cups in CD-ROM trays, people overwatering plants set atop their monitors or CPU towers, and so-forth, how quickly are you stunned by the stupidity of these otherwise-capable people? * More direct to my own experience, I've been through service positions with at least two companies in which some of the people I was responsible for accommodating were PhD's, and who, for some unknown reason, could not perform basic functions like addressing mail. I mean, literally, I can think of two PhD's downstairs who will call me later today (as they do consistently on Wednesdays every week) to help them write down addresses. They've got PhD's, so sure they're bright. But, come on ... they're also monstrous idiots. I've got a former RN writing medical liability policies who can't put paper in her desktop printer. And, yes, I have actually encountered one person standing just inside the Copy Room door, staring at the shredder, waiting for her copies to come out. None of it really speaks of Boris' intelligence, for which I have great enough respect to not assume I'm qualified to measure. But it did make me smile to read the question, and suddenly I thought of the bright bulbs downstairs who are incapable of functioning in their daily lives. To that end, I would ask you, Infinity, how specifically Boris' presentation has affected you. Not necessarily blow-by-blow, but as a general process. If he is the catalyst to set in motion the effects of a long growth process, then you won't hear a squeak out of me on that. But conversions of ideas often present new challenges that neither the convert nor the original idea can forsee. I suppose what I'm after is that I hope you're not blindly dancing with snakes, waving your hands, and shouting, "Praise Nothing!" I mean, there's time for that down the road, but the actual process of conversion of ideas is one I rarely get to witness, so I'm just sort of intrigued, which is a better thing to be in this case than drunk in a rightfield box seat. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)
Calm down she says as she spits venom everywhere, hey Infinity I am handeling vipers Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I think you got it right with the testing God bit. If you want to know more about Flash and why she believes see attached links. this link this link When I have more time I'll get back to you on other bits and pieces. Alf, Welcome along, we will talk (eventually) about some of your questions. Tony H2o
Hey guys, just been reading through the big debate going on here. Want to say i am a Christian, but am extremely aware of the weaknesses of man and the fact that we have a tendency to use religion as a front for our wars and other inhumanities. For example, the Spanish inquisition, the actions of the KKK, the holy crusades and even the conflicts in Ireland at the moment. None of these things is really a reflection of God they are merely a reflection of the failings of mankind, Christianity is about serving and biulding others up not ripping them down. A question though... If Christianity is wrong and i die after living my life for God and others (seeing others biult up to experience life to its fullest) and then there's nothing, what have i lost? Nothing, i had a wonderful life. But what if it's right and i live my life ignoring it and then i die, what have i lost? everything, for i must then suffer the consequences of my choices. thanks for all the food for thought
"you see coffee cups in CD-ROM trays, people overwatering plants set atop their monitors or CPU towers, and so-forth, how quickly are you stunned by the stupidity of these otherwise-capable people?" I wouldn't call that stupid, I would call that silly. Wouldn't you?
Infinity, I'm getting the feeling that something more has happened than just you reading all the posts by Boris. It's almost as if you have an anger running through your veins. I recognize it because I was once there. If you wouldn't mind sharing... is there and if so what ..why??? I also have a weird feeling that you have been here as another person... if so that explains your statement of telling me to cut the act. This is no act...it's a real life experience.
Alf, I believe that the Bible is "inspired" by God...written by man. Sure, it is very possible that man has added or taken away even when translated from the hebrew and greek. How I know what is truth and what is not, regarding the Bible, is by spending time with God. He sent His Holy Spirit to help teach us. [This message has been edited by Flash (edited July 20, 2000).]
Flash, I was saying "cut the act" because I thought for a second you were playing a prank on me. But I guess I was wrong, you really do believe in God. So why would that make you think I've been here under different names? Is their anyone here who acts similar to me? Do you have a sneaking suspicion that I'm posting under different names? [This message has been edited by Infinity (edited July 20, 2000).]
Infinity, Hey, I'm sorry...it's probably just my mind working overtime. Actually, it's just that you do remind me soooooooooo much of the way I use to be...so much that it's scary! LOL Again, I apologize... Take care, Flash
Infinity-- Actually, I hold with stupid. Like in the case of the plant, it's a badly balanced, leaky plastic bucket full of dirt that you pour water into. What part of natural selection encourages one to pour water into a plastic bucket badly balanced over That Much Electricity? People are suing because their coffee was hot. I've read an actual insurance claim in which a patron is suing a restaurant because he broke his ribs falling off a toilet in the mens' room while surrpetitiously observing an illegal act of public sexual intercourse. His complaint is that the toilet was not appropriately constructed or installed. When does it stop being silly and start being downright, dangerously idiotic? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! (Truly, though, I love the stupid people; in fact, I prefer to spend my time imitating them. People are nicer to you ... How sweet to be an idiot ... harmless like a cloud ....) Lookit that, Infinity ... you've got me feeling silly ... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)
Francis : That is plain, opportunistic bullshit ! As if the christian belief is the only one out there... Suppose you live your life to be a christian only to realise that you find yourself at the banks of the Stickx waiting for Charon to take you to the other side ? Big mistake, you never give a whim about Zeus in your life and so you will pay for eternity for it next to Daedalus... ------------------ I err, therefore I exist !
Plado's right. I believe in the Zeus God. You know, the dude that sits up on the Moutain and hurls lightning bolts at us. That would explain all those constant thunderstorms were having. Their is more proof that Zeus is the real God then their is proof of scuzzlebutt's existence. Now tell me my beliefs suck and their really cheesy.
Infinity There is a lot of historical data on the era of Christ that throws the very historical existence of Jesus into question. The Sumerian and Babylonian creation myths, flood myths, creation of man and woman myths, as well as their apocalyptic expectations of a messiah to redeem the wrongs done to their people, is too similar to the Judeo/Christian religious motif to be coincidental. There really is no reference to Jesus by any of the early Egyptian, Greek or Roman chroniclers. Thus, if Jesus was so influential, and a worker of such incredible miracles as described in the NT, His life would definitely have featured in their chronicles. Yet it is a historical FACT that it He is not even mentioned in passing. And remarkably, the now freely available Qumran scrolls also paint a vastly different picture to the early Christian era than the NT reflects. So the question then becomes, who is God? Is the Judeo/Christian God, also the Sumerian God, and the Babylonian God? And yes, what about Dionysis, Zeus, Apollo and even Plato and Socrates? And the Egyptian Kings (not the pharoes) from the Older Dynasties, who were also considered Gods, and once again their creation myths also reflect a close similarity to the Judeo/Christian motif. So before one can even harp on at the contradictions in the Canon, the very historical foundation of Christianity is questionable. Almost mythical. And that’s before one enters into the arena of the early Roman Church and its tampering with the gospels, to reflect their dogmatic views of Christ and his teaching. And their relentless persecution of any other Christian or religious movement within their domain. Such as Gnosticm, Manicheanism, etc. So you see the potential implications for Faith! But that is what is so remarkable about Faith. There are millions of Christians out there, who are absolutely implicit as regards their Faith. The secret to spirituality is not the particular religion or its dogma, but in the belief of, and hope for … redemption and immortality. This has been the fundamental reason for the existence of all of mankind’s religions and myths. By invoking a God to explain ones very creation, existence and hope and faith in the future and immortality … the God becomes a reality, although unseen. And a spiritual miracle occurs in the souls of the believers. God becomes an overwhelmingly real manifestation. Is that God touching man, or man touching himself? Or does man find himself in himself … and does this realisation reflect a glimmer of the God that is within us? Take care
I think you hit it right on the spot when you said "man touching himself" Sure, I would like to believe I can live forever. I would also like to believe that I'm bulletproof. But believing dosn't make it true. You only live once. When your dead your dead, and your never coming back. Although, I do look forward to rotting in the ground.
