Quite possible too. It would seem that 5000 years ago Yemen was the civilisation of note and in those areas are places with all the biblical names. Its quite possible that the biblical Israel was based in Yemen. There havent been too many excavations there but we already know that many of the places in Palestine have similar names as places in Yemen. An intriguing comment I read here: I wonder what would happen if the kingdom of David turned up there.
Yes, S.A.M. grasping a any straw to keep afloat. Again, Your own Quran establishes the special historical connection of the Jews with Israel not Yemen.
The Sinai is large, but it seems unlikely the Exodus crowd would have *never* passed over the major trade routes, and instead *always* stuck to the untraveled rugged mountain paths for 40 years. Besides that, 40 years of nomadic life with 100,000+ people? In the desert? The water needs alone for that many people make that unlikely, unless there was a "miracle of the day" in which God sent them water. (and food.) At this point though, people seeking to prove the Exodus have been all over that region, and...nothing compelling. Even the less traveled routes have been investigated. At this point it seem like the exodus would have had to have actively avoided paths and roads, and limited themselves solely to climbing directly over the tops of mountains to avoid detection, and never going where anyone might think to look for a large group. It's possible that God simply covered their tracks, but given the evidence in favor of finding that the Israelites are in fact Canaanites and that their culture developed as an offshoot of the Canaanite culture, the simpler explanation for the lack of evidence is that most of them developed where the Canaanites developed, in the regions of Judah and Israel. In a way that is better for them, as the Israelites of the Bible are genocidal religious fanatics who invade the holy land, kill men, women and children, and steal their land and possessions. Their claim on the land is : We conquered it and so it's ours. That is fine insofar as it goes, but it does give the Palestinians hope that is they can reconquer it, and are strong enough in their genocidal religious fanaticism, that is a valid way to establish their own state.
SAM.. why do you make ridiculous assertions? You make yourself, and everybody who disagrees with Israel's treatment of the Palis look silly when you do that. But it's a very serious issue. People are being treated like dirt, and it's never good to have humans getting treated that way. If Israel were in Yemen, there would be a Jerusalem there, and a number of other notable cities. We know for sure that the current city of Jerusalem was part of Israel's territory at least since the return from Babylon around 600 BC. That's agreed upon by too many sources. Even the Romans placed Israel where it is today. It's really funny watching theological debates when you're an atheist. Very good point. I am never in favor of honoring claims that older than a few hundred years. It's just plain silly. Even the Hebrews of old had a tradition of forgiving debts, if they got to be over 7 years old. In the USA, we have bankruptcy laws. I just think that, once a past injustice gets to be over a certain age, your right to retaliation or compensation just kind of vanishes. I'm pretty sure that, if we are honest with ourselves about it, the real purpose of the current state of Israel is to allow Europe to finally win the crusades. As long as the Jews own Jerusalem, that basically means the Christians own Jerusalem.
What Theological debate? This is a logical question, to S.A.M. a Muslim, the Quran is infallible, the Holiest book in Islam, S.A.M. claims that Israel is a fiction of History, so if Israel is a fiction, then the Quran which recognizes the Jews special connection with the Lands of Israel must be a work of fiction to. Not worried about the Theological, just asking the logical. Do some research on the passages in the Quran which connect the Jews with Lands of Israel as a historical fact, and that Allah gave those lands to the Jews. In fact according to the Quran, for "The End of the Wold" to take place, the Jews must all return to the land of Israel. So again the logical question, If Israel is fictitious, then the Quran must be fictitious as it recognizes a fictitious Israel as belonging to the Jews. You want to know something really funny? I consider the Quran as conformation of truth of the New Testament, but S.A.M. can't have it both ways, Israel as a fiction of History, and claim the Quran as Infallable when it recognizes Israel as fact.
Guess what if you read the Exodus NIV, God did provide a miracle a day; 11 The LORD said to Moses, 12 "I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, 'At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.' " 13 That evening quail came and covered the camp, and in the morning there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14 When the dew was gone, thin flakes like frost on the ground appeared on the desert floor. 15 When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, "What is it?" For they did not know what it was. Moses said to them, "It is the bread the LORD has given you to eat.
Yes, as I said, if you believe in that sort of thing, but generally the Bible is not reliable evidence of what happened in the past by most academic standards, any more than Greek mythology is. It may contain kernels of truth, which is why I say that it is possible that some people came out of Egypt. If you believe the Bible, then someone built a boat big enough to house two of every species of animal on the planet, and humanity is only 6,000 years old.
Have you ever looked into the work done by Ron Wyatt? One of the things that intrigues me about his work regarding Exodous is the official Saudi Government stance on Islam (that sentence probably makes little sense to anyone other than me, however...)
Right, but the point I was thinking of is the fact that the traditional Mount Sinai isn't neccessarily the actual mount sinai (in fact, I'm under the impression that that 'designation' is no older than Constantin's mother), nor is it neccessarily located on the sinai peninsula. Some of what I've read on the matter suggests that the red sea crossing took place at the Gulf of Aqba, not Suez, meaning that the Israeilites would have been wondering around the Saudi Desert for 40 years, not the Sinai Peninsula - assuming we accept the 40 years figure as being a literal truth.
I was referring not to the mountain, but to the whole Sinai peninsula where they were supposed to have wandered, much of the peninsula has been searched since it would be an amazing coup for any archaeologist to find physical evidence of the Exodus. I agree that Mount Sinai is likely not the right mountain, though. I am less certain about people searching the Saudi desert for signs, though there life for a hundred thousand wanderers would be even harder.
Ehhh...isn't the Sinai peninsula owned by the Saudis? Are you sure they'd want evidence to turn up that the Jews actually DID come out of Egypt? I mean, I'm not a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I jsut thought of this...
I always found blaming the arab countries for the plight of the palestinians is like blaming the US for the holocaust. yes they played a part in why iot was so bad but neither were the root cause(and the root must suffer the most blame). Nazis started the holocaust and the Israelis displaced the palestinians.
I know, I gathered as much from your post - I was just meaning that the Sinai Peninsula may not be the right place to be looking, and I agree that life would have been much harder on the Saudi Peninsula, however, Ron Wyatt (I know I probably sound like I'm promulgating his work, i'm not, I'm just intrgigued by his ideas) alleges (me using cautious language) to have found a land bridge across the Gulf of Aqba, and geographical features that match the descriptions in the old testament (on both sides of the gulf). I think that part of the reason that his work hasn't recieved a smuch attention as it should perhaps have, is that some of it may be of questionable legality - and the Saudi Governments official stance is that the people of Saudi Arabia went straight from Paganism to Islam (inspite of the presence of Christian Churches on sovereign Saudi soil that predate Islam).
Quite. So did the Jews, unless you can answer my post far above. ...? Surely you aren't actually asserting that the claim is some kind of theological grant? A Waqf for the ages?
Oh... my god. Another person on this forum who thinks that the Exodus was real..? LOL. I am now going to reveal a secret to you, copied from a post I gave to the other person (quadrophonics) who mistakenly accepted Exodus as part of their reality: The ancient Egyptians DID NOT enslave the ancient Hebrews. That is a Biblical myth. Do not mistake that biblical myth for historical fact. There is absolutely no historical, archaeological or forensic evidence which supports the Biblical myth about Hebrew slaves in Egypt (let alone the grander myth about Moses or the Red Sea or any of the other associated horseshit). The ancient Egyptians did not have Hebrew slaves. Not ever. That is a fact. No Hebrew slaves in Egypt... no Moses... no wrath of god... no 12 plagues... no parting of the Red Sea... no Exodus... nothing. Nada. It never happened. Long ago, I did a term paper on Egyptology when I was in college (it was one of my favorite civilizations of all time) and I can assure you that any and all accounts of Hebrew slaves in Egypt are false. The closest parallel would be the Amarites, the Hittites and similar Semitic peoples who were sometimes enslaved following a border war with Egypt. But their numbers were always small and they were of many mixed tribes. Also, the Babylonians to the east would sometimes sell slaves of Semitic geneology to Egypt as a form of commerce and trade, but again... the numbers were relatively small. The overwhelming majority of slaves in Egypt were either black Ethiopians (referred to as "Nubians" during their time) and a smattering of Egyptians, who were condemned to slavery as a punishment for crimes that they allegedly committed. Did they have any other slaves..? Yes... and most of their slaves came from neighboring regions such as Ethiopia. Also, it was common for Egyptians themselves to become enslaved, as a punishment for various petty crimes (more serious crimes almost always received a death penalty). PS -- the pyramids at Giza were built LONG before there was any such thing as Hebrews. Long before Judaism, too.
