Except their history is fictional. There was no exodus or exile. The Palestinians on the other hand lived there. The European Jews are not Middle Easterners, they are Europeans who made up a story to colonise the Palestinians. Just like the British and Americans did to colonise India and the native Americans Fictional made up stories do not give anyone any rights. Real dispossession does not compare to mythologies See this: This is occupation. This is occupation. Indians who read this, recognise this. It is part of our history under the Raj too, supercilious white men who treated us like dirt and starved and killed us on our own lands. http://theonlydemocracy.org/
S.A.M. can you become any more ridicolus? The Jews are a Fiction? Israel is a Fiction? Even your own Quran recognizes the Israel of Ancient Days, and the Jews right to their Lands, or is your Quran a Fiction?: "To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'" "Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]." "We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning." [Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104] Yes S.A.M. keep telling your self that Israel is a fiction, if you repeat it 3 time it will become true.......time to lie down and put some cold compresess on your fevered brow. Reaching desperate straights now aren't we.
Bani Israel is children of Israel, just like bani Adam is children of Adam, it refers to the prophet Israel, in Arabic like Hebrew, ben anything refers to an ancestor not land Anyway by your logic if we have to go to the Paleolithic age and mythologies to assert who belongs where, you have no right to live in the US either.
"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104] or is your Quran a Fiction?
Yeah and that was what was said to the children of Israel. Read further, they broke the covenant and were dismissed. Then came Islam. Story over. Its mythology, it shows that God takes his covenant very seriously.
So is your Quran a fiction? it recognizes Israel as a Nation of Ancient Days. After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.[Qur'an, sura 2:85]
The Quran says nothing about any nation The land was given to the children of Prophet Israel, they broke the covenant and lost it. That story was over long before Islam. Even Jesus rejected the Jews and said they could only be saved through him. In fact those Jews who don't accept Jesus will be killed, doesn't the Bible say that?
Then your Quran is a Fiction? "When God made a covenant with those [the Children of Israel] to whom the Scriptures were given He said: 'Proclaim these to mankind and do not suppress them'". [Qur'an, sura 3:187, "The 'Imrans"] "God made a covenant with the Israelites and raised among them twelve chieftains [the princes of the twelve tribes of the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel]". [Qur'an, sura 5:12, "The Table"]
You added stuff in brackets, its not there in the verse. I already told you children of Prophet Israel broke their covenant and lost.
So is your Quran is a fiction? Children of Israel! call to mind the favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations. [Qur'an, sura 2:47]
Also there is no evidence for Moses or Israel or even for Solomon or David. For all we know they are just allegories since the Qur'an also tells us that much of itself is allegory, means to teach lessons.
I personally agree that there was no Exodus, at least not as the Bible describes it. The Sinai has well preserved merchant camps where they estimate twenty people spent the night a few thousand years ago...and yet they never found any evidence of camps for thousands or hundreds of thousands of Israelites. It's just unlikely that that many people spent 40 years in that desert region and somehow left no mark on it. Plus there is plenty of reason to believe that the original Hebrews were Canaanites who just started worshiping one of the 70 sons of of the Ugaritic deity, El. One of El's sons in particular was named "Yahweh" and both "El" and Yahweh" make appearances in the Bible. Some people may have come out of Egypt, and no doubt many traveled there, but the Exodus seems largely to be fictional, so far as the evidence is concerned.
BR: The Umayyad Caliph already declared in the 8th century that the Quran is what Mohammed told us, so you can take it as you like it. Fact or fiction, its not a real estate agent
But S.A.M. you said that Israel was a fiction, but your own Quran recognizes Israel and the Patriarchs of Israel, so If Israel is as you claim a fiction, then to so must be your Quran because it addresses a fictional Nation and People. "We sent forth Noah and Abraham and bestowed on their offspring prophethood and the Scriptures". [Qur'an, sura 57:26, "Iron"]
Why don't you read the whole Qur'an like me and then tell me what it says about religion? Do you believe Islam is the perfect religion? Because if you accept what the Qur'an says, it would mean that Palestinians who are descended from the Hebrews and adopted the religion that God chose for them, have inherited Israel. Also note that European Jews trace lineage from mothers, while Palestinians trace theirs from their fathers. And Israel goes to those who trace it from Solomon, not from Sheba Even mythologically, European Jews lose out.
Correct. And Yahweh had a consort Ashereh, who can be seen in Judean theology as one of the deities. There were synagogues in Judea devoted to Yahweh and Ashereh: He brought out the Asherah from the house of the LORD outside Jerusalem to the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and ground it to dust, and threw its dust on the graves of the common people. Kings 23:6 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah
Actually S.A.M. I have, spent 3 years with the Bahai' in Hawaii, even thought of converting. So even this passage recognizes Israel and the Jews, so either Israel is real or the Quran is fiction.
/sigh The passage says: 'This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.' [al-Maa'idah 5:3 ] The rest is Hadith. Can you understand?
S.A.M., the Quran and Hadith recognize the existance of Israel, so your claim that Israel is a Fiction is either false, or Your Quran is a fiction, Your own scriptures recognizes the existance of Israel. So either You are wrong about the existance of Historical Israel being a fiction, or Your Quran is fiction because it recognizes the Historical Israel as a fact.
