The mechanism of formation of rogue waves

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Fermer05, Dec 17, 2023.

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  1. Fermer05 Registered Senior Member

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    The mechanism of formation of rogue waves.
    Geofak Moscow State University. https://m.facebook.com/groups/328946357209747

    A huge number of tidal waves move in the seas and oceans.
    When tidal waves collide with the coastline of the continents, tides are formed.
    When two tidal waves collide in the open ocean, a killer wave forms.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
    The magnitude of the killer waves can be calculated using the following formula: H = T1 • T2.
    Where T is the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
    Experiment to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves
    As we see, killer waves are formed only in those seas where tidal waves are formed and the higher the amplitude of the tides, the higher the killer waves.
    In seas where tides do not form, killer waves do not occur.
    List of seas where tides and killer waves are formed, more than 50 cm high:
    Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, West Mediterranean, Bering Sea, Sea of Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargas Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Alaska Bay, etc.
    List of seas where tides and killer waves are formed, less than 50 cm high:
    Baltic Sea, Greenland Sea, Black Sea, Sea of Azov, Chukchi Sea, Kara Sea, Laptev Sea, Red Sea, Sea of Marmara, Caribbean Sea, Sea of Japan, Gulf of Mexico, etc.
    In the season of abnormally high tides, abnormally high killer waves form.
    The highest tides and killer waves are formed in the North Atlantic, in the Pacific Ocean in the Sea of Okhotsk, etc.

    You can conduct a simple experiment if two stones are simultaneously thrown into a bath of water. (the distance between the stones is 10 - 15 cm).
    When a tidal wave collides, the emerging killer wave foams and a larger wave pulls through a smaller wave somewhat.
    You can create a killer wave with a height of 0.3 meters and a duration of 0.5 seconds, if two divers at the same time jump "bomb" into the pond from a height of 2 meters. (distance between jumping 3 meters).
    If, in a cup with water, hit simultaneously with two tablespoons and a "killer wave" is formed there.
    The mechanism of formation of the tidal hump in the river, and killer waves in the oceans is similar and the height of the tidal hump in the river depends on the kinetic energy of the current in the river, and the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/fNxSM5ZBGN5evNQi9

    Tidal waves move in the open ocean in different directions, at speeds up to 100 km / h, they are also called solitons or Rossby waves.
    Barely visible tidal waves colliding with storm waves create a killer wave and are the main cause of the wreck of ships.
    The map shows the areas of the most frequent occurrence of killer waves. https://habr.com/ru/companies/ruvds/articles/585414/
    In the North Atlantic, killer waves form mainly around the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary cycle as a result of the collision of tidal waves with storm waves (three sisters).
    Suloy is a throw of water on the surface of the sea.
    https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сулой

    The hypothesis that the superposition of wind waves can be the cause of the formation of rogue waves does not stand up to criticism, since rogue waves are also formed during a calm period. (Wind waves do not form a tidal wave).
    The statement that methane floating from the bottom of the ocean sharply reduces the density of water and the vessel loses buoyancy is also not true, since a decrease in the density of water cannot cause mechanical damage to ships and oil platforms.
    The crews of the ships always record the impact of a huge wave, but no one has yet been able to record the methane emission.

    In the North Sea, off the coast of Norway, on the Dropner oil platform on January 1, 1995, during a 12-meter storm wave, a killer wave of 25.6 meters was formed.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draupner_wave
    I believe the reason for this natural phenomenon is a tidal current that moves along the coast of Norway from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave from itself, both towards the coast and towards the open sea.
    Also, north of the Dropner oil platform through the Pentland Firth Strait, a current moves at a speed of 16 knots from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave north and south.
    https://www.equinor.com/en/what-we-do/partner-operated-fields-in-norway/draupner.html
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea
    In the North Sea, only storm and tidal waves move.
    And only, the interaction of tidal and storm waves can be the cause of the formation of killer waves.

    Continuation: Forum of Akademgorodok Novosibirsk. The science. https://forum.academ.club/index.php?showtopic=1235578 Forums of Nizhny Novgorod State University named after. N.I. Lobachevsky. http://forum.unn.ru/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=10331
     
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  3. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Demonstrably utterly wrong.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure the whole thing is wrong but one common problem is people using "tidal waves" to refer to tsunamis. A tsunami isn't a tidal wave but when the term is used that way, it's confusing and inaccurate from the start as you have no idea what the person actually means or is referring to.

    In this case a tidal wave and a tide could be defined as the same way. A tide doesn't result from a tidal wave slamming into land. A tsunami does become more destructive as the ocean depth decreases but it doesn't result in a "tide".

    Given this start, I'm sure the whole article is non-sensical which is why I haven't waded through the whole thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2023
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  7. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes the terminology is usually not used correctly.
    Tides are caused by the moon of course but also periodic tidal waves like this,
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pororoca.

    "Tidal" waves in terms of tsunamis are caused by seismic activity, displacement of large plates under water or very large rock falls.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It caused the capsizing and sinking of the Petromar V drill ship.

    I know you don't care about facts, but others might.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, it's technically a tsunami.

    But after seeing video of the 2011 Japan tidal wave I can see why people call it a tidal wave. It's more like a tide that keeps coming in and coming in over the course of 15 minutes than a wave. I've only experienced one, and it was indistinguishable from a tide - just much, much faster.
     
  10. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

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  11. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Your "since..." is a non sequitur. It has been demonstrated that bubbles reduce buoyancy, and could lead to sinking. Whether that decrease in density can cause mechanical damage is, frankly, irrelevant, as a ship with no mechanical faults can still sink if it is no longer sufficiently buoyant.

    Furthermore, rogue waves may well be the likeliest cause of many, if not all, otherwise mysterious sinkings / disappearances, but that doesn't rule out bubbles (of methane or other gas) being a possible cause in some instances.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Survivor Bias.
    For all we know, those recordings of methane emissions are all at the bottom of the sea.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Fermer05 Registered Senior Member

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    Not a large percentage of ships sink from rogue waves.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    My point being we don't know how many ships have been sunk by methane emissions. Sailors may have taken their recordings of it to the bottom of the sea with them.
     
  15. Fermer05 Registered Senior Member

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    The ebb and flow is the result of the rotation of the Earth and the gyres.

    Tides are not formed along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only on those coasts where there is a high speed of currents.
    And the higher the speed of currents along the coast, the higher the amplitude of the tidal wave.
    On those coasts where the speed of currents is 0 km / h, the amplitude of the tides is also 0 meters.

    The waters of the lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming cyclonic gyres.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
    And everything that rotates, including the cycles, has the property of a gyroscope - to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

    If you look at the Earth from the side of the Sun, the gyres, rotating with the Earth, turn over twice a day, thanks to which the gyres precess (sway by 1-2 degrees) and reflect a tidal wave from themselves along the entire perimeter of the gyre.
    https://goo.gl/images/M4SJq8 http://goo.gl/AM5g1s

    The waters of the White Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge gyroscope whirlwind, which precessing reflects the tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the White Sea. A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
    White Sea. http://rivermaps.ru/doc/beloe/beloe-3.htm
    http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png

    The waters of the Mediterranean Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming tides 10–15 cm high. In the Gulf of Gabes, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the mysteries of nature. But at the same time, the whirlpool rotates in the Gulf of Gabes, precessing reflecting an additional tidal wave.
    The tidal wave in the Amazon River creates a huge planetary circulation with a diameter of several thousand km., Rotating between South America and North Africa, covering the mouth of the Amazon River.
    The pattern of movement of the tidal wave along the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary circulation (according to satellite data).


    The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the rotation.
    The height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the rotation, the orbital velocity of the Earth and the time of the rotation of the rotation (12 hours).
    A = V1 • V2 / t
    Where, A is the amplitude of the tidal wave.
    V1 is the rotation speed of the rotation.
    V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
    t is the time of the rollover of the cycle (12 hours).
    Table of tidal amplitude versus current velocity, on all coasts.
    1 km / h - 1 meter.
    5 km / h - 5 meter.
    10 km / h - 10 meter.
    15 km / h - 15 meter.
    The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the cycle, the amount of water under the cycle, the distance from the coast to the cycle and on the direction of the current (north, south, west, east).
    The currents that move along the equator reflect a tidal wave north and south twice a day.
    And the currents that move along the meridian reflect a tidal wave west and east 1-2 times a day.
    A simple experiment can be made if you rotate the globe around the axis and in orbit, entwined along the equator and meridian with a plastic hose in which the fluid moves.
    By the height of the tides, you can determine the speed of the current along the coast, relying on the map of sea currents.

    Continuation: https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35094.msg358862#msg358862
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
  16. Fermer05 Registered Senior Member

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    Criticism of the lunar theory of the tides.

    According to the lunar theory of tides, in temperate zones tidal force raises the earth's crust to a height of 20 cm, and at the equator more than 50 cm.
    Then why are the tides in the equatorial zone three times lower than in the temperate zones?
    The maximum height of the tides in the temperate zones is:
    1) Fundy Bay in North America - 18 m.
    2) The mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m.
    3) Bay of Mont Saint-Michel in France - 15 m.
    The maximum height of the tides in the equatorial zone is:
    1) Maraca Brazil - 9 m.
    2) Balboa Panama - 5 m.
    3) Zanzibar Tanzania - 3.5 m.
    Information about the tides in some ports of the world.
    https://www.krugosvet.ru/enc/Earth_sciences/geografiya/PRILIVI_I_OTLIVI.html
    The tidal cycle theory explains this discrepancy by the absence of the Coriolis force at the equator, which is necessary for the formation of cycles, cyclones and anticyclones.
    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a0730201f0f095995e9cc6c7c9875519
    According to the lunar theory of tides, abnormally high tides should occur at the equator and not in the temperate zones.
    Quote: “a half-meter“ lunar tidal wave ”, such as a mini-tsunami, rushes to the eastern coast of the continents at the equator at a supersonic speed. https://scfh.ru/lecture/prilivy-i-otlivy-v-moryakh-i-vo-vselennoy/


    How to understand the fact that the amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Fundy yesterday was 6 meters, and today is 18 meters?
    What changes have occurred overnight, for such a sharp jump?
    We have two possible answers:
    1. For a day, the force of gravity increased three times.
    2. During the day, the rotation speed of the rotation has increased three times.

    Record high tide in the Bay of Fundy - 21.6 meters - occurred only once in the entire history of observations, on the night of 4 to 5 October in 1869.
    On the night of October 4-5 in 1869, under the influence of the Saxby Gale cyclone, a record rainfall fell over the river basins flowing into the Bay of Fundy (300 mm per day), thanks to which the waters of the Bay of Fundy poured into the Bay of Man and increased their rotation speed gyre in the Gulf of Maine three times.

    During the flood of rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy, the current speed in the north of the Gulf of Maine rises to 20 km / h, with the result that the height of the tides reaches 18 meters.
    During a drought over the basins of rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy, the amplitude of the tides does not exceed three meters.
    And the most important question is why in the season of abnormally high tides in the Bay of Fundy, in other bays of the Northern Hemisphere, the amplitude of the tides does not increase?
    A similar pattern of abnormally high tides (floods) is observed in all bays into which rivers flow.
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    The Moon's influence is slightly stronger at the equator but not enough for abnormally high tides. The Coriolis force plays a crucial role in amplifying tides in temperate zones. Local factors like basin shapes and geography can significantly impact tide height.

    High tides in the Bay of Fundy are not high primarily due to the slightly stronger lunar pull at the equator.
     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The tides are the result of the Moon's revolution about the Earth*. That's why
    a] the strongest tidal cycles are in sync with the Moon's orbit, and
    b] the high tides follow the Moon's passage.

    *and the Sun


    If this were not true - if tides were caused by some phenomenon other than the Moon and Sun - then the tides would eventually fall out of the sync with the passage of the celestial bodies.
    They do not. There is a delay, but that is not the same as desynchronization.

    The tides have been synched with the Moon and Sun for all of recorded history.


    False.

    Tides are found everywhere there is shoreline. They reach higher where water flow is funneled, such as the Bay of Fundy.


    You speak out of ignorance. Why do you insist on making assertions about things you have not studied?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2023
  19. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    It is folly to think the moon is not responsible for tides.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Tides are observed everywhere on the planet, not just on coasts - no matter what your imagination comes up with.
     
  21. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Seems to be a case of: "the supposed main driving force doesn't fully explain all localised observations... therefore we should discount it entirely as the main driving force", rather than "so there are likely other drivers at local level". While it is good to come up with and consider alternative explanations, it is best done so while still adhering to some degree of rational thought about them.
     
  22. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    Since the Moon's orbit is not aligned with the equator, but is 5 degrees from the ecliptic, the Moon's tidal influence varies by as much as 28 degrees from the equator.
     
  23. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    I live not on, but not far from the coast. When we plan a day trip there, I rarely check tide tables, but rather just glance at a calendar which show the phases of the Moon. Just by knowing how close it is to a new, full, or quarter Moon is enough for me to get a good gauge of the type of tides we'll get and roughly when the high and low tides will occur.
     
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