The jews got their own Holocaust, but what about others in the 20th century ?

Discussion in 'History' started by Pasta, Feb 5, 2010.

?

Why do you think the Holocaust is well advertised, and victims of Communism are not ?

  1. A. Jew are influential in pushing advertising of what happened to them in schools, books and films.

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%

  2. B. People sympathetic to Communism are supressing advertisment of Communist democides

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%

  3. A & B

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%

  4. Other

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 2 of 13
  1. quadraphonics

    quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    For starters, because you're talking about multiple distinct events, perpetrated by separate polities in different places at different times. To refer to that as a single event, with a single name, would be inaccurate.

    ? There are lots of movies about that stuff. Many of Solzhenitsyn's books have been adapted into successful movies, and then there's stuff like Dr. Zhivago, Animal Farm, The Lives of Others, Burnt by the Sun, East/West, etc.
     
    quadraphonics, Feb 5, 2010
    #21

  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. spidergoat

    spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Another reason why the holocaust of the Jews was important is that it is a phenomenon that had been repeated over and over in Europe. The hatred of the Jews is a different kind of phenomenon than Stalin's purging of rebellious minorities (although he did do his own share of killing Jews).
     
    spidergoat, Feb 5, 2010
    #22

  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. PsychoTropicPuppy

    PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,538
    That's a sexy post.
    Czech TV, German TV(e.g 3sat), etc.
     
    PsychoTropicPuppy, Feb 5, 2010
    #23

  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. CptBork

    CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,465
    Par for the course with you. And you wonder why so few people care about your own whining?

    Yeah, it's called "The Great Purge", and there is a difference. If you were a Jew living in Europe in the 1930's, chances are you would have ended up exterminated by the end of the war. It wouldn't have made a lick of a difference even if you were to tongue a NAZI officer up the arse and beg for his mercy. Can you name any other ethnic groups where ~33% of their population, and more than 50% of their European population, were savagely and sadistically slaughtered because of their lineage, in the space of just a few years?

    Maybe Europe remembers the Holocaust more than slaughters in the Congo, because in the former case there's a direct connection and responsibility. Otherwise, I don't see why we shouldn't commemorate all victims of genocide, including the tens of millions of Chinese brutally slaughtered by Japan and the hundred million slaughtered by Mao (as well as the tens of millions slaughtered by Stalin in the afforementioned Great Purge, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
    CptBork, Feb 6, 2010
    #24
  8. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    it did it just still had the original meaning
     
    pjdude1219, Feb 6, 2010
    #25
  9. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    no they made sure people got the jewish version of the events. they left things out
     
    pjdude1219, Feb 6, 2010
    #26
  10. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    their is a difference between merely educationg people and whining. the jews have long sinced crossed the line into whining. 60 years after the fact and still using it as justifaction is whining.
    because most people ignore reality in favor of delusions.
     
    pjdude1219, Feb 6, 2010
    #27
  11. CptBork

    CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,465
    You should have specified that in the first place. Remembering the Holocaust and making sure it can never happen again don't constitute whining. Doing something bad and using the "two wrongs make a right" argument would be whining.
     
    CptBork, Feb 6, 2010
    #28
  12. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    No but jews efforts in regards to the holocaust are responsible for the general ignorance of the non jewish victims
     
    pjdude1219, Feb 6, 2010
    #29
  13. CptBork

    CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,465
    The argument also works the other way. Israel gets in a war and ~1500 people die, and this is treated with more anger and venom than Sudan ever got.
     
    CptBork, Feb 6, 2010
    #30
  14. CptBork

    CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,465
    What have they done to suppress the recognition of other genocides?
     
    CptBork, Feb 6, 2010
    #31
  15. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Advertising. Where else do you see a commemoration of a genocide that generates a six figure income for the institutional heads [e.g. Rabbi Marvin Heir makes over $500,000 annually], while survivors demonstrate because they receive only $20 a month?
     
    S.A.M., Feb 6, 2010
    #32
  16. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    Jewish people themselves don't call it that.

    Like what?
     
    James R, Feb 6, 2010
    #33
  17. CheskiChips

    CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538
    Really...no one has mentioned - because of the brutality with which they were killed. Gas chambers...mass graves...okay other genocides had that. But how many of those who commited genocide turned their genocidees into soap and used their body parts in jewelry or as pieces for lamps and other decorative pieces?

    Yeah...the gulag killed more people and even though if we assume that it was fully intended to kill its citizens (which it wasn't)...they didn't turn its victims remains into house hold items.
     
    CheskiChips, Feb 6, 2010
    #34
  18. PieAreSquared

    PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,144
    the nazi's did a pretty good number on the russians...lot more than the jews

    also the japs killed a lot of chinese and koreans... which they still kind of deny
     
    PieAreSquared, Feb 6, 2010
    #35
  19. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Do historians agree with that? 65 million people died in WWII, out of which 20 million died in the Soviet Union, half of which died in gulags [although that figure is not as sacrosanct as the six million of the holocaust and can be adjusted when facts don't support it] and two thirds of the gulag commisions and secret police were Jewish.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/25/russia.books

    edit:

    Apparently some people are trying to make up for past iignorance

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60J4AJ20100120
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
    S.A.M., Feb 6, 2010
    #36
  20. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    I'm not talking about other genocides. I'm talking about the other victims of the holocaust.
     
    pjdude1219, Feb 6, 2010
    #37
  21. pjdude1219

    pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    Probably because sudan gets treated under the standards for a lawless broken state and Israel gets its wish and is treated to the standard of a democracy.
     
    pjdude1219, Feb 6, 2010
    #38
  22. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Remember that the word "holocaust" literally means "total or near-total destruction" of something, "especially by fire." It comes from a Greek word meaning "sacrifice to a god by burning." It was first used in English in the 12th century to describe the massacre of Jews in London. For eight more centuries it was used almost exclusively to describe a massacre of Jews, an event that happened with some regularity in Christian Europe. One of European Christendom's defining traits during that period was its vehement and cruel antisemitism. So its use for yet another massacre of Jews by European Christians in the 1940s was not only not remarkable, but on the contrary it was completely consistent with its standard usage by English speakers throughout modern history.
    I think other members have answered this question. Generally these other events lacked the focus of a holocaust. For example: not being limited to a specific religious or ethnic group, or not attempting to completely exterminate a group, or being performed for some reason other than ethnicity or religion.

    Today the meaning of the word has narrowed to mean "an attempt to literally exterminate a population, specifically because of its ethnicity or religion." The only other event that is commonly called a Holocaust is the slaughter of Armenian Christians by the Turks during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, which is widely perceived as an attempt to exterminate all ethnic Armenians within the national boundaries of what is now Turkey. Churchill used the word in that sense before WWII. (It's been argued that this was actually a pogrom against all Christians in the country, and that Armenians merely comprised the majority of them, but that would still qualify as a holocaust.)
    I was in Europe more than 35 years ago, when the memory of WWII was stronger than it is today. Everyone I met who talked about the Holocaust (not everyone wanted to, of course) was quick to acknowledge that Gypsies and Slavs were also regarded as "inferior" by the Nazis and were killed in great numbers. In Niš, a large, major city in Serbia, three statues stood in its central park: a large one representing the Jews killed by the Nazis, a smaller one representing the Serbs, and the smallest representing the Gypsies.

    My mother's family is Bohemian (we call them "Czech" now because it's easier to spell and pronounce) and we lost a lot of relatives to the Nazis. Entire towns were wiped out, like Lidice, that had absolutely no strategic military importance. As another member said, I cannot name those relatives, but when I stood in Prague and other Bohemian cities I certainly joined with my new friends in weeping for them.

    To this day, many non-Jewish people in Eastern Europe say that the problem with the collapse of the Soviet Bloc is that the Germans are once more united into a single country, and the world will one day regret that mistake.
    They call it Shoah, which means "calamity." Many Jews resist using the word "holocaust" because of its roots in polytheistic Ancient Greece.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Feb 6, 2010
    #39
  23. GeoffP

    GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    Wow, that was slimy.
     
    GeoffP, Feb 6, 2010
    #40
Page 2 of 13
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page