The jews got their own Holocaust, but what about others in the 20th century ?

Discussion in 'History' started by Pasta, Feb 5, 2010.

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Why do you think the Holocaust is well advertised, and victims of Communism are not ?

  1. A. Jew are influential in pushing advertising of what happened to them in schools, books and films.

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
  2. B. People sympathetic to Communism are supressing advertisment of Communist democides

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  3. A & B

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%
  4. Other

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
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  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I apply that same logic to untouchability and yeah you're absolutely right

    And no, I still don't agree with it.
     
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  3. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    But an ethnicity is very frequently an ideology that involves race. Are arabs all nuts?
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You do realize that you are telling people who think of themselves as Jews, are identified by Jews as Jews, are identified by non-Jews as Jews, are counted in formal government censuses and surveys and the like as Jews, and so forth, that they are not Jews,

    because they don't meet criteria of your selection according to your chosen standards?

    Good luck with that.

    As we who are atheistic have long ago discovered, people in general are who they and general others agree that they are. Self-identified Protestants and Catholics are Christian, regardless of what the Bible says or what some application of reason to evidence would imply. The debate about whether Mormons are Christian or not cannot be settled by reference to the Bible or any other authority - it is settled by asking the Mormon community and its neighbors whether Mormons are Christians. If the general public agrees that they are, they are.

    If you don't "accept" black as a race, that's one thing. If you try to tell Obama that therefore he should not "pretend to be black", that's a different matter entirely.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    If they think they are a "race" or an "ethnicity" then they are mistaken.

    Just as those untouchables who think they are born into their caste are mistaken.

    I'm not going to make exceptions for Jews.
     
  8. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Disagreeing with things that you aknowledge are absolutely right is... well, nuts.
     
  9. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    In strictly biological terms, I don't disagree that they would be mistaken in believing they belonged to a race or ethnicity. However, culturally they wouldn't be mistaken.
     
  10. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    It's not generally possible to be "mistaken" about something like that. If a group of people thinks that they are a "race" or an "ethnicity" and behaves as such, then that's what they are. And there's nothing that you or anyone else can really say about that.

    They don't seem particularly mistaken, to me.
     
  11. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    In strictly biological terms, there is no such thing as a "race" or "ethnicity."

    These are sociological constructs, not biological classes.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You are absolutely right that untouchability is considered a race, that people are treated as a race of untouchables by each other and by others

    You are absolutely right that they have tomes of religious gibberish which they use to justify and sustain it, as they have for 1000 years

    You are absolutely right that they identify as such to the extent that seats reserved for them on schools, jobs and councils go vacant because they feel it is against their religion to be treated as equals

    And I still consider it all gibberish. The fact that you are absolutely right in the opinion you express does not make the argument any less gibberish. Because its a specious argument. There is no such thing as untouchability, if you do not believe in it.

    So yeah if an "untouchable" kid grazes my arm while begging, I don't run home and take a bath. Because its gibberish.
     
  13. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    And who made that rule? Some people! So people can redefine it.
     
  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    No SAM, you are pretty wrong, hell you are completely mistaken. That psychological study only works on maybe 1 or 2 people at a time. It doesnt work between millions of people and it dies off after that person dies. What you seem to be implying is that it becomes imprinted on ones DNA so the children have the same thing.

    The fact is that the world has treated Jews like crap for 2000 years. Were finally back in control of our country and people are trying to drag it away. Fact is that we would rather irradiate Israel with nuclear bombs than let go of it. We have been pushed into the dirt for too long. And you have no idea what that is like. Oh the Islamic nations claim how they are being oppressed blah blah blah.

    Come back in 2000 years after a dozen genocides and THAN you can atleast have the right to complain that what your getting is far worse.

    SAM you have this wierd illusion that the Islamic nations have been treated the worst out of any ethnicity in the world. Too bad, you guys dont even make the top 10 on that list let alone the top 5.

    When your ethnicity is hunted to the point of extinction several times for thousands of years and you are exiled from your motherland, than, and only than do you have the right to complain.

    Until than, you have no right to complain. The arab complaints are analogous to some stereotypical rich kid not getting the new iphone when he is making fun of another kid whom lives on the street and whose parents were killed by the KKK.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Can I make Islam vanish, like that?

    How about if I line up the aspects of Islam that I think are gibberish, and tell all the Muslims who abide by them that they aren't Muslims. Sounds like a plan.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know he's not Jewish? Maybe he redefined Judaism to black white supremacist.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Okay.

    What does that have to do with anything? The crucial thing with sociological constructs is that people believe in them, and act accordingly. That's where their existence and power derives from, not from some kind of sound logical deduction from evidence or axioms or whatever.

    Pretty much the entirely of theistic belief is overt gibberish, but that doesn't impede the function of religion, in the real world. In many cases, it actually helps.

    There is no "argument" here. Untouchability, Judaism, etc. are not advanced as descriptive scientific endeavours. They are identity groups, and as such not answerable to formalized definition.

    Not quite. There would be no such thing as untouchability, if nobody believed in it. But since many people - both untouchables and not - do believe in it, and act on those beliefs, the category exists and has real power. Whether you, personally, believe in it or not makes no difference.

    Good for you. But that doesn't make "untouchable" any less real a category. That kid is still, ultimately, going to be treated as an untouchable, both by other untouchables and a great many others besides.

    Now, if you were to successfully convince everyone in your society that there is no such category as "untouchable," that would make a difference. But your own personal stance as such makes very little difference, in the scheme of things.
     
  20. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    Hes in the KKK. The second you saw that the words "not Jewish" should have flashed in your mind....
     
  21. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing about the category "white supremacist" implies that the person adhering to the ideology must be white. On the contrary, an overt, concerted effort was expended over many generations to instill white supremacist ideas into black people specifically. It is necessary that they believe themselves inferior to whites, if white supremacists are to have any hope of sustaining a social order based on such a premise.

    And that effect certainly has not disappeared from black consciousness yet. That's why the skit in question is so poignant, and so funny.

    You should already know all of this: the caste system also goes to great lengths to instill notions of inferiority into the Dalits, no?
     
  22. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    In fact that was my point. Congrats are in order, for keeping up.
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed. But it would be difficult to believe that the blacks and Dalits could have managed it by themselves

    Which is certainly not an incentive to continue the same BS for the next generation.
     
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