The Healer

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Magical Realist, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,820
    I watched a show Monday night on TLC about an alleged healer named Charlie Goldsmith. Skeptical at first, I thought it'd be some sort of placebo effect or something. But watching him heal three cases, I am convinced he's the real deal. The condition he focuses on healing is the pain associated with a condition. Complex regional pain syndrome in a woman's leg. Knee joint pain from Lyme disease in a young man. And actor Jennifer Grey's disc replacement neck pain from a car accident 30 years ago. Charlie doesn't claim to heal everyone. But when it works it works. He simply closes his eyes which appear to go into an REM state and concentrates his energy on the person's painful body area for a few minutes, and keeps doing this over and over until the person can get up or move without the pain. He even works with doctors to provide solutions in cases that can't be cured by modern medicine. He takes no money for this life of service he is committed to. Truly another remarkable example of human singularities emerging in our modern times.

     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,921
    Ha-ha, good one! You skeptical of an absurd claim, right...
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,820
    Article on Goldsmith:

    http://www.elle.com/beauty/makeup-skin-care/news/a30626/energy-healer-charlie-goldsmith/

    "Goldsmith also treated water for patient No. 6, an 87-year-old woman who had a history of coronary artery disease, a pacemaker, a resected bowel, diverticulosis, anemia, and other troubles. She had come into the hospital with pain in her chest, shoulder, and upper abdomen as well as chronic pain in her mouth, neck, and head. In the room with the patient were Goldsmith; two doctors, Ian Kaiser and Yasaman Eslaamizad; and a fourth-year medical student, Tanuj Sood, who made the following notes:

    "The session began with Charlie energizing a cup of water that was already in the patient's room before he came. The patient then drank the water and was completely healed of the pain…in her left arm; however, the pain in her mouth, neck, and head still persisted.… Next, the patient ate some pudding which she states would typically give her severe epigastric pain. First, Charlie placed his hands over her sternal area without touching her, and then she proceeded to eat the entire…hospital size cup of pudding. After finishing the cup of pudding, she reported no pain at all. Finally, the patient complained of mouth pain that the patient reported to be a lump on the hard palate. After Charlie placed his hand over her head for a few seconds, the lump had decreased in size. Charlie repeated the maneuver with his hand over her head and shrunk the lump in her mouth completely. Finally, Charlie repeated the maneuver for the pain in the patient's neck and healed the patient of her neck pain. A few minutes after this session was over the patient got up and walked out of her room, into the hallway of the hospital, and back to her room. The patient states that this is the first time she has been able to walk without a cane for the past nine years."

    The purported energizing of water makes quack-busters particularly apoplectic (the Grad/Estebany plant experiments with healer-treated water notwithstanding), and I asked Goldsmith why instead of treating patient No. 16 herself, he treated the water in her glass.

    "Honestly? I was showing off," he said, flashing not just a bit of bluff Aussie confidence, but also a trace of the chronic exasperation he feels knowing that no matter how successful he is, he will have to prove himself anew in the face of reflexive skepticism. He's not the first good-looking human being to have to fight to be taken seriously, but Goldsmith's image is often commented upon by his critics. "What I do is always getting placed in the placebo bucket, which implies that my results are because of what's been triggered in your body or because of what you believe, or how I look. Everything to find an excuse. But I know if I don't put in the effort, it doesn't work. If my looks alone can heal 8 out of 10 people, the medical system needs to reconsider the way it casts doctors. We're wasting the talents of fashion models—they should go stand in hospitals and heal. What would they say if I was ugly—that I can heal because people feel sorry for me?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    One of the things my wife learned during her Massage Therapist schooling was something called Reiki - it, and reflexology, are things that I would really like to see more focused study around, because I have to say - when she would practice on me, it was astonishing how well it would work. She would attempt various methods on me (typically, I would lay there, arms limp at my sides, eyes closed, and just sort of relaxed) and she'd review her materials, then practice on me for a while. Every now and then I felt something I can't quite explain - like a moment of warmth or such - but one that stands out in my mind was a reflexology session during the height of allergy season - she pressed in, fairly hard, on a spot on either foot, and suddenly my sinuses just released, and I could breathe. She's used that a few times when my allergies are particularly bad, and it never fails to work.

    Is it psychosomatic? I don't know... if it is, why did it work the first time, when I didn't know that was what was supposed to happen? My personal opinion - more study is needed, but more importantly - those that practice it need to help weed out the bunk. It isn't some "magic" cure for any and every thing that ails you, and it certainly isn't a replacement for medical treatment; rather, it is a supplement, that seems to have good use alongside formal medicine.
     
  8. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,103
    It's good that he seemingly wants to be tested scientifically.
    But until that time it's no different to any other unproven alternative practitioner who claims to produce results without any physical contact.
    Reflexology I put in a slightly different bracket as there is at least physical contact involved, although the mechanism of how, say, pressure on your foot may clear your sinuses each time, remains unclear, or if it is even anything to do with the physical contact.
    And don't get me started on homeopathy.

    Anyhow - as for Goodsmith, if people find it works, great, but get himself scientifically tested before taking it too literally.
    I hear Randi's $1m is still up for grabs.
     
  9. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Aye, and that's what gets me. If it had been one of those "she told me what was supposed to happen and it did" things, I would write it off as psychosomatic or placebo effect.

    It makes me wonder how and why things like Acupuncture and Acupressure work.

    Heh, yeah. Things that people label as "homeopathic remedies" in order to make a quick buck off gullible people... it's sad to be honest.

     
  10. Gawdzilla Sama Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    554
    At what point does this get acknowledged as just plain trolling?
     
  11. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,483
    Seemingly would be the operative word here
    Generally it goes he will want to set the terms
    Next the get out of jail card goes along the lines of "the spirits are not working today" or something along those lines

    From previous crapola post around the net it seems spirits don't like being investigated in clinical settings

    If if if he comes through he will spend the rest of his life in
    1/ labs being examined and
    2/ hospitals trying to teach how he does what he does

    What's the chances / odds?

    Well I put it in the crapola basket for two reasons
    I'll let you guess the two

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,505
    Why do these "healers" always heal things like "pain"? Pain, as we all know, is a very subjective thing. We only know if it is there or if it isn't by what the person experiencing reports.

    I have no doubt at all that the subjective perception of pain can be altered in many ways. The mere expectation that pain will be releaved by a magical "healer" can result in a subjective reduction in pain. It's called the placebo effect.

    I will be far more impressed when one of these "healers" helps somebody to regrow a lost limb, or something like that.
     
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,820
    You've obviously never experienced any enduring physical pain in your life because that shit doesn't go away just because you believe it will. If it did doctors would be prescribing placebos instead of painkillers. Talk to real chronic pain sufferers. It's not just in their heads.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  14. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Unfortunately, this is always very much true, ofttimes, for mainstream medicine--especially so in the U.S. That said, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with addressing pain; moreover, alleviating pain can also facilitate healing generally. BUT U.S. medical practitioners have long prioritized pain management (no doubt incentivized by generous comps by Purdue Pharmaceutics, among others) over preventative medicine, and even in place of addressing the underlying core of the problem from which the pain stems.

    But is this, in itself, necessarily a bad thing? If the patient experiences a reduction in pain, they've experienced a reduction in pain. That is hardly trivial or significant.
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,505
    You know nothing about what I have and haven't experienced, but it's not relevant to what I wrote anyway. Don't try to make this about me.

    It does, and they do, some of the time.

    Where else could pain be, other than in their heads? Pain is a feeling, an experience. What do you think pain is?
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,505
    I didn't say there's anything bad about alleviating pain.

    What I was questioning was the faith healers and people who claim miraculous healing powers, like the guy in the opening post.

    Again, I said nothing about pain being trivial or insignificant.
     
  17. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,483
    I agree and relief of pain is ALMOST a good thing with two main caveats

    Your not turning off your warning system
    That's it relax, let the pain flow out of your body - doesn't cut it when your body is trying to tell you that you have stomach cancer

    You don't turn yourself into a medication junkie

    Correct the brain within itself has no ability to FEEL pain. Pain is the brains interpretation of nerve signals from body regions

    Not a very sophisticated system as frequently you get a cross signal where trouble in one region of the body leaks over to nerves from another region. What's the brain to do? Not much but interprete the pain as coming from the wrong region. Oops

    Treating the cause obviously should be top priority and pain relief short time fix until cause eliminated

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Context, James. Of my post, that is. I was saying that mainstream medicine in the U.S. is often overly focussed on addressing pain, while neglecting preventative medicine and, often even, not even attempting to address the underlying cause of the pain. And that the former, in itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when they neglect the latter part, and address the pain exclusively, that is a bad thing.

    Again, I didn't imply that you did (you've got a real peculiar way of reading things sometimes). Rather, I was addressing the reduction of pain as consequence of placebo effect. It's still perceived by the patient as a reduction in pain. The why is rather inconsequential here, if the aim was to alleviate pain.
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,820
    Charlie apparently healed the pain of a little 2 year old boy by named Gibson on the show last night. That pretty much rules out placebo effect imo..
     
  20. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    How does it rule out placebo effect? If the kid was told that what was going to happen would/should help with the pain...

    Plus, as was stated before, pain is rather subjective. As my wife and I progress through our lamaze classes, one thing we were told to try during labor was having alternating heat and cool applied to her neck, shoulders, and back, because the sensations would help diminish the sensation of pain from the labor. Supposedly the warmth/cold sensations "take precedence" over the pain, and there have been some case studies to back this treatment:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3872865/
    It seems entirely reasonable that simply distracting the child from the pain would help diminish it (probably the same reason why a mother kissing away a boo-boo works so well - it makes the child focus on something other than how much it hurts, and so it doesn't hurt as much).

    Obviously, this doesn't apply to everything. I doubt any amount of distraction is going to take away the pain of a gunshot wound or severe burn, for example.
     
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,820
    It wasn't a kind of pain a child could simply be distracted from. It was the symptoms of congenital adrenal hyperplasia syndrome and growth hormone disorder. He experienced migraines and knee joint pain that was not just in his head. When Charlie had him lay down on the carpet, he put his hand on his back and closed his eyes and Gibson went to sleep immediately and slept for hours. That's the kind of instantaneous relief that comes from a real healing. Weeks later the show checked on Gibson and he was a normal hyperactive kid running around, In other cases subjects commonly describe tingling or warming sensations in the part of their body Charlie is healing. People can actually feel his energy by holding their hands next to his. This is the real deal and not just wishful thinking.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 5:12 PM
  22. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,199
    Hmm, interesting. I think the next step would be to get a healing session recorded on MRI, EKG, and other biometric scans to see if it can be pinpointed what, exactly, the method of action is.
     
  23. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,820
    I was thinking maybe a FLIR thermal imaging camera to record heat variations on the body. If an area shows temperature increases, it would suggest a real phenomenon. I guess we'll see tests like this in the future as he seems very open to being tested.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017 at 6:17 PM

Share This Page