The Government of Heaven

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by nds1, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. nds1

    nds1 Registered Senior Member

    According to the Bible, it seems pretty clear that heaven is comprised of some kind of government. There is an order of power in heaven.


    St. Gregory the Great's idea of the Hierarchy of Heaven:

    1) Angels
    2) Archangels
    3) Virtues
    4) Powers
    5) Principalities
    6) Dominations
    7) Throne
    8) Cherubim
    9) Seraphim

    St. Thomas (Summa Theologica I:108), following St. Denis (De Coelesti Hierarchia, vi, vii), divides the angels into three hierarchies each of which contains three orders:

    Hierarchy 1: Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones
    Hierarchy 2: Dominations, Virtues, and Powers
    Hierarchy 3: the Principalities, Archangels, and Angels

    The only Scriptural names furnished of individual angels are Raphael, Michael, and Gabriel.

    The above information was attained from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

    ________________________________________________________________


    My questions are:

    1) Where do God, Jesus, and The Holy Gost fit into this hierarchy?
    2) What do humans become when we die, and where are we on the hierarchy of heaven when we die? Do humans have the ability to turn into, say, Principalities?
    3) How does this hierarchy relate to the 2nd coming as described in Revelation?

    Thoughts anyone?
     
  2. Godless

    Godless Objectivist Mind

    Did St. Gregory have any evidence for his assertions? I supose not! so he was just inventing shit, as every other theist has throughout all time;)

    They don't exist! No evidence has ever, ever been presented that these entities exist, existed, or shall exist when one dies!

    Eaten bones, ashes if burned!

    Keep waiting, as done by generations of deluded believers!

    http://campus.fortunecity.com/defiant/666/coming2.html

    Heaven as described in the bible, is a cubicle;
    http://www.nobeliefs.com/heaven.htm
     
  3. Prince_James

    Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)

    1. God is the Lord of the universe according to Christianity.

    2. Humans and angels are two types of creatures. One does not turn into the other.

    3. The heirarchy is not related to the Second Coming.
     
  4. spidergoat

    spidergoat alien lie form

    This heirarchy of heavenly beings is related to the system of government the writers of the bible intended people to follow, namely a monarchy.

    Under the teaching of Jesus, we should be a democracy or self governing anarchy.
     
  5. Adstar

    Adstar Valued Senior Member

    1) I would not trust the findings of Gregory, at best it is speculation. But God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is above all others in Heaven.

    2) We become Children of God. We rise above all angels in fact we will judge angels.

    1 Corinthians 6
    3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

    3) It will change when Jesus returns. Those who are true followers of the Messiah Jesus will be raised from the dead at His coming and will inherit their eternal bodies and therefore will be above angels in the hierarchy. But once again i do not trust in the findings of Gregory. What will be will be.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  6. nds1

    nds1 Registered Senior Member

    Interesting verse Adstar. So then humans will be above angels in the hierarchy (on condition that they accepted Jesus).


    Rev 22:1-2
    22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
    KJV

    When John refers to the healing of the nations, does this imply that the nations currently existing will be intact, but will be repaired or healed?
     
  7. Silas

    Silas asimovbot

    I thought that meant just Him and the disciples.

    It's slightly misleading here - you haven't made it clear that Angels are the lowest and even Archangels are the second-to-lowest (so much for Gabriel being God's bezzer mate). The Cherubim and Seraphim attend on God Himself, and in addition to being unable to stand God's countenance, nobody can stand up to seeing the C and S in the face either.
     
  8. Prince_James

    Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)

    Angelogy also has a rich history in Western and Jewish Occultism.

    The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, derived from Qabbalah, invokes the powers of Michael, Raphel, Ariel, and Uriel.
     
  9. nds1

    nds1 Registered Senior Member


    I just looked on that website I posted above. I probably got them backwards. Sorry about that.
     
  10. draqon

    draqon Banned

    there is no heaven.
     
  11. Nickelodeon

    Nickelodeon Banned

    Proof?
     
  12. draqon

    draqon Banned

    There is no proof that Heaven exists.
     
  13. Nickelodeon

    Nickelodeon Banned

    I agree, but is there proof it doesn't?

    That it is perhaps impossible for such a thing to exist?
     
  14. draqon

    draqon Banned

    when it comes to lack of proof as proof of something not existing...A belief in something is what drives me. Do I want this heaven to exist, do I want to believe in heaven? No. Because heaven would mean there are no challenges in life...no hardships to overcome...no change whatsoever. Life for me is heaven and hell at the same time. I only want life to exist...I dont want to believe in heaven or hell...they do not have proof of existence and I do not want to believe in them.
     
  15. Godless

    Godless Objectivist Mind

    The onus of evidence is on the shoulders of those making the claims, such nether supernatural existence actually exist. It's not the concern of "non-belivers" to provide evidence for that which they don't believe to exist, it's for the claimant to provide evidence that it does. BTW an ancient text writen by nomadic schizophrenic dessert dwelers is not evidence of the existence of heaven or hell!;)

    Heaven and hell are tools, to manipulate the ignorant masses, do as we say, obey our laws and you be rewarded after death in a place of bliss "heaven".

    Do the opposite, don't believe our gods, our laws, etc.. and you will be punished in a place of damnation for eternity "hell"

    Truly most ignorant people, want to avoid this hell, and do what they deem as right and proper by the laws of theist, to make it to heaven.

    Nothing but tools of manipulation this heaven and hell bs rhetorical crap! :rolleyes:
     
  16. draqon

    draqon Banned

    I second that.
     
  17. Prince_James

    Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)

    Godless:

    Completelyyy off topic and not condusive to the discussion at hand.

    No need to evangelize.
     
  18. SkinWalker

    SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology

    You're wrong. It was spot on with the discussion. Several posts prior to that one began the question of "proof" with regard to "heaven."

    I do find the mention of all the gods of Christianity to be interesting. Christianity appears to be nothing more than polytheism in the disguise of monotheism. Indeed, the deity called Satan or the devil has all the alleged qualities of a god: omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, etc. This god exists very prominently in the Christian pantheon.
     
  19. Satan is a created being.
     
  20. Adstar

    Adstar Valued Senior Member

    People from all nations (races) have accepted Jesus and Messiah. Therefore while all nations/races will be represented in the number of the Children of God that does not mean that the people of the nations that rejected Jesus as Messiah will be preserved. So when John is referring to the nations he is not referring to all the people who ever existed from the nations but the portion of people from all nations who did not reject the Messiah Jesus.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

    The letter was from Paul to the Corinthian believers, from the surrounding scriptures it is clear that he was referring to them. He was admonishing them for taking their disputed to the courts of the worldly authority.

    1 Corinthians 6
    1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

    The saints refer to all the body of Christ, not just the apostles. We see this in the opening greeting in the Letter:

    1 Corinthians 1
    1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

    2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

    So the letter was to the saints. He was admonishing the saints at Corinth.

    All who believe Jesus are saints.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2007

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