Tyler, I'm backing you up 100%. Joeman, Xev. You have just proven my point. Americans are arrogant. Read what you wrote here then tell me you're not. You can't, cos you'd be lying. The US did not save us in WW2. Don't know were you got that. You saved France, big deal. The Brits were only concerntrating on Poland. Lot of good that did after the war. Great Britain would have held off the Third Reich. They withdrew their invasion plans after they lost the Battle of Britain which was BEFORE the US finally got of their asses and did something for the free-world.
Two data points are not enough evidence to prove your point. There are 274 million people in US. To prove your point, first you need to calculate how many samples are required to represent 274 million people with 5% error or less. You can come up with different numbers depends on what kind of tests you do. Chi-Square test is very common. No matter what test you do, that number is going to be more than two.
"Whether someone do something that is good or terrible is always subjective. I have been in this kind of debate too much. I have learn if a person is from your country then what he did is good if he is not from your country then he is terrible. It is all matter of perspective. That is a big part of what patriotism is about - only make judgement from your own country's perspective. Most people have partriotism in them. It is hypocricy if they say they don't. For those who say patriotism is a bad thing, I can usually find circumstances when they are being hypocritical." Patriotism is a necessity to a successful country. However, when it his a limit it becomes both detrimental and annoying. "Correction: I actually never meant standing by a politician no matter what is a good idea. What I was trying to say is I always stand by a politician no matter what he does is good or bad, as long as what he does is good for America. That is sad for some people I guess" That is sad to me. My view is more case-by-base. "So you speak English, French, German, Belgian, Russian, Spanish, Hebrew, and Japanese? I don't consider travelling "living there". You don't learn their culture without speaking their language." English - obviously French - Yup German - Yup Belgian - German can be spoken Russian - not enough to understand the culture, enough to get anywhere and anything Spanish - Hells no. But when I was there I learnt a fair amount. It was 4 years ago remember, I spent over three months there and I had enough to get by on by the end (I started learning before we left). I've just not used it since then so I've forgotten it for the most part. Hebrew - I did. You need to for a bar mitzvah unless you're just the kind of person who phonetically remembers what they have to say. Minute after my bar mitzvah I consciencly forgot everything. Didn't want it. Japanese - nope. We had a hard time in Japan. I would like to learn though. "I have a lot of relatives married to Japanese. My grand parents were educated in Japan. (They are not Japanese) That is where they met. They don't speak each other's language, but they communicated in Japanese when they were dating. The Japanese are totally brainwashed in the class room. In fact most kids don't know anything about WWII. They don't even know they invaded other countries until grow up and find out on their own. Yes they are arrogant especially when their economy were red hot in early 90's and their products were kicking everyone's butt." That's very interesting, thank you.
Your statement was, "A little bit of racism can be a good thing. I am not bothered by racism personally. Only wussies are." How is ANY racism a good thing? And then you say only "wussies" are bothered by racism? Were the Jews killed in the Holocaust, "wussies"? Were the Blacks who were enslaved and segregated, "wussies"? Were the American Natives who were massacred, "wussies"? Were the Asians who got put into internment camps, "wussies"? You seem to lack an understanding of how racism can affect people. On most things Joeman you think things out very well, but on this issue your way off.
Thor: I'm glad to see you're not letting my explanation of my post get in the way of your ignorance. A: Anyone with half a brain could tell I was joking. Even if you did not know I was an athiest, my title proclaims it. So obviously, when I say "godless commies", I am joking, being godless myself. B: Okay, so you're not very bright. Or you have not had your morning coffee yet. But you could at least read what I say: "Tyler, it's called "parody" or "burlesque", also "joking". Sorry, thought you'd recognize what with "godless commies" and all." The US made major contributions, and definitly was insturmental in winning the war. But I won't argue the thing I said as parody. For how long? No, the US' entry saved millions of lives. I love the way people like you live under democratic or at least free governments and advocate fascism. Tyler: Annoying to you, sure. Most of the world hates us. *Smiles* There's no way to change this, so why bother? The thing to do is to stay safe and ethical at the same time. Basically, I'm saying that no American should give a flying fuck whether the rest of the world thinks we are annoyingly patriotic.
To foreigners maybe Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Case by case basis is the common sense approach. My philosophy is a little too scary for some of you kids. Did you notice I say "A little bit"? If those examples you described fit into the profile of "a littile bit", then what is "a lot"? I really don't think any of those you described will happen again in any civilized countries. In the world and through out history, the only thing that make people tick is competition. Compeition is the whip that crack your back. Racism has benefited me more than it has hurt me. If someone say I can't do this because of my race, it only forces me to try harder. Since there is discrimination in work place, it forces me to have better credentials. I see it as nothing but a mechanisms that seperate the strong from the weak. I don't practice discrimination myself. The person practices discrimination always pays a price under open competition. Under competitive environment there is no room for nonsense, like discrimination.
I'm curious -- to all of you who live in countries other than America, what other countries do you consider to be as arrogant / almost as arrogant as America?
Countries are consist of....umm....people. What else is capable of being arrogant in a country besides people? Not many. There are arrogant people. There are arrogant people who run the country. There are not so arrogant people. There are always reasons behind arrogance or arrogant politicians. It could be purely due to the way the person is brought up. It could be because the country the person runs has superior bargaining position. There are always reasons to be arrogant. Believing a country can be more arrogant than another is ignorance. By living in another country can eliminate some of that ignorance, and therefore less likely to believe that. I say France is pretty arrogant. To a foreigner French seem arrogant as hell especially if you visit France but don't speak French, but if you get to know them in person by person basis, they are usually nice people. It helps when two of my cousins married to French guys.
"Tyler, it's called "parody" or "burlesque", also "joking". Sorry, thought you'd recognize what with "godless commies" and all." Like I said - "all in good fun" "Annoying to you, sure. Most of the world hates us. *Smiles* There's no way to change this, so why bother? The thing to do is to stay safe and ethical at the same time." Technically, it could be changed. But it would mean major changes in the education system and that just ain't gonna happen. "Basically, I'm saying that no American should give a flying fuck whether the rest of the world thinks we are annoyingly patriotic." Replace annoyingly patriot with...hypocrites/violaters of international law/Nazi-supporters and other such things and you get an attitude that most people in the world laugh at. What you've said is "who gives a flying fuck about other people - we do what we want". Well that's great. Who gave a fuck about the Argentinians? After all, Videla helped the American cause, right? So who gives a fuck that his idols were Mussolini and Hitler? Great attitude. Joeman; "Case by case basis is the common sense approach. My philosophy is a little too scary for some of you kids." Yup. Absolutes don't exist. "Believing a country can be more arrogant than another is ignorance. By living in another country can eliminate some of that ignorance, and therefore less likely to believe that." That's bullshit. Not many countries had the attitude America did in dealing with the Commies. "We'll put in a bunch of murdering Nazi's to drive out the will of the people in a nation (Communism). Not right? Fuck them, we're America and we can do whatever the fuck we want. Democracy is the best choice, we shouldn't let them choose for themselves!" Canadians are completely not arrogant. Our standing army is a joke around here, our economy is something we know will never get huge again and people generally deal with things on a case to case basis. Our patriotism means having pride in the past and aiming to improve the future. As you said, a lot of American pride deals with pride in whatever the fuck happens. Lykan; "I'm curious -- to all of you who live in countries other than America, what other countries do you consider to be as arrogant / almost as arrogant as America?" The French were pretty arrogant in relation to the Americans and British. For some reason that didn't include Canadian. Greeks always come off as very superior to me. The rest of the countries I never really would have said were arrogant as a majority.
This thread is about flags, and when I think of the American flag I think of the ideals and hope of it's people (yeh I know it sounds sappy). Racism is a cancer on our society Joeman. To act cavalier about it and say it can be a good thing, just shows how out of touch you really are. If you think that the things I mentioned before couldn't happen again in any "civilized countries", then your very naive. Segregation in America only ended a little over 30 years ago, Stalin's and Mao Tse-Tung's massacres were only around 50 years ago. The Holocaust and Internment camps were only 60 years ago. Shall I go on... Thinking it can never happen again, will only allow it to happen again. The whole idea of their even being different "races" is so retarded, I feel strange even discussing this.
It is interesting that I flamed Joeman once for being insufficiantly patriotic. *Laughs in glee* And I admired Tyler for being open-minded and reasonable about America. Oh, how reality gives the lie to my assumptions! But in all fairness, Tyler, I felt as you did when I was your age. You will grow up. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Luv, when you are in power, everyone hates you. The educational system has nothing to do with it. Good heavens Ty, have you lost your grip on reason completely? I did not say that these things are okay. A little deparkote will take care of your belief that I support my country's actions in Argentina. I said that it was no big deal that other countries found our arrogance annoying. I did not say it was okay to violate the rights of thousands of people by proxy. Frankly, I don't see how you drew such a conclusion, especially since I have told you before that I found such actions to be despicable. Creating straw men is a great tactic.
Yeah Lykan, the French. *Clicks fingers* Where to start, where to start. Ok, Tyler, excellent responce. Could do with a bit less Nazi ref's in but hey. So, Joeman. You're For rascism are you. How I pity you. Xev, how can I have a morning coffee at 11pm? Figure out your timezones plz. Also, if the US had joined in the fight and not sat around like idiots for three years, millions more would have lived. Example of US arrogance, these three simple words, 'GOD BLESS AMERICA'. Why the feck are you so special in 'gods' eyes. For a country all for Human Rights, you seem to include lots of Christian beliefs into the way your country is run. Its on your currency, anthem, and many other things. What ever happened to the LAND OF THE FREE. You're more or less forcing beliefs on non-christian/jewish faiths ie Muslims. I may not be making much sense here, I'm quite tired, but I know what I'm talking about. You Americans are ignorant to your arrogance THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND THE US WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BACON
If I am going to look at a flag of the US, I particularly like to see the storm flag. There are several, usually put up by cities, around. These are huge flags, requiring a substantial flagpole to hold it up in the wind. To see one of these monster flags is quite inspiring. Maybe not so much for what it represents; its size is just mind numbing. I become more dissatisfied with our president by the week. I guess that is no big deal as I do the same with all presidents as their tenure proceeds to its inevitable conclusion. Part of it I think is both parties do the continually posturing as they jockey for power and position. The news media picks up on this and amplifies it all out of proportion to its significance. Another thing the news media does is filtering the news. I guess what I am saying is it is not unbiased, straight to the core, news. It seems everyone has an agenda to push. Important info gets left out, as it is contrary to the agenda that is to be represented. Having had some dealings with being the newsworthy item for my 15 minutes, I was amazed at what was reported as opposed to what was. Some things, timely mentioned or neglected, give a whole different slant and image to the subject. While favorable, it was no less shocking in its approach. Someone mentioned in the threads above about the attitude of the citizens spitting on Vietnam Veterans as an expression of their dislike of the Vietnam War. This was a war (police action by another name) that our politicians involved us in and would not commit to the win the thing and get it over with. So it dragged on and on. It was the first war that the country saw night after night on their TV’s as they finished their suppers or digested them. It was the first conflict brought into the homes of the majority of the populace. The government did not help their position by acts similar to the Kent State debacle. But enough of my rambling...
"Luv, when you are in power, everyone hates you. The educational system has nothing to do with it." Ug. You made a comment stating that American arrogance/ignorance could not be removed ("So why try?"). I then said it can be removed, but it means changes in the education system. Then you said everyone will hate us no matter what. Well that's just great but I fail to see why the hell you brought that in? "Good heavens Ty, have you lost your grip on reason completely? I did not say that these things are okay." And I did not say you did. What I'm saying is that the attitude is quite common. "Frankly, I don't see how you drew such a conclusion, especially since I have told you before that I found such actions to be despicable." Blind patriotism allows these type of actions to exist. You said Americans shouldn't give a flying fuck that they are annoyingly and blindly patriotic. I believe that if a people were not blindly patriotic they would likely not stand for actions such as Argentina and Trujillo.... I may be wrong, and I'm guessing that if I am you'll show me how. "Creating straw men is a great tactic." - "You will grow up."
Thor: I don't know your location, thus I don't know your timezone. One kind of needs to know location to know timezone, you know? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! This is true. I thought you were an athiest? I dunno. I generally get offended when people say that the Invisible Pink Unicorn likes the French better than she likes Americans. Agreed, your point being? Agreed. Agreed as well. You don't say? Wow. You must be a very brilliant person to have figured out this very complex fact. Of course it does not. Who the fuck cares?
Oh yeah it does. I already said I don't care if a politician does something good or bad as long as it is for the best interest of a country. I also said competition is the way that makes people tick since it serves as the whip cracking our back. I can go a step further and say inefficient and flawed government or cultures must have a way to end its existence through competition. It is good for humanity. The end justify the means. It is pretty scary. I don't want this thread to go on a different direction especially if it is something controversial. If you don't support your country enough and your country has fucked over by the mighty USA, that is too bad. There are times you must give blind support to your country, especially if your country is Israel when some countries try to end your existence. I don't see anything wrong with that besides your stereotype. Until you can "measure" arrogance without resorting to anecdotal examples, you will never prove your statement. You say you like to debate over internet. You will never win any debate using generalization.
