The FDA cracks down on "jack3d"...a pre workout stimulant. Why?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by wegs, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    If this isn't the right place for this, please relocate it.

    I take a pre workout stimulant called jack3d, which its main active ingredient is 1,3 dimethylamylamine. There have been reports of heart attacks etc due to this product. If you take it as suggested, there should be no issues unless u have a medical condition.

    So, the FDA cracked down and it was taken off the shelves for a while. I don't believe it had ever been FDA approved. So my question is...for those who understand chemistry well, is this truly harmful to me? It is a caffeine derivative. I weight lift and this stim helps with focus and energy mainly.

    If you all agree it is harmful then I will stop taking. But, when the FDA approves drugs like Viagra and the like...I have to wonder what its motive is for pushing to ban this product?

    This is the only pre workout stim that has this as an ingredient. It's strong but again, taken correctly..you should have no issues.

    Look forward to your thoughts on this and why the FDA got involved?

    Thanks!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Buddha12 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,862
    Why would anything be needed to get a good workout other than yourself and water? Just try to do a workout without taking anything at all should give you all the natural strength that you'd need. Taking anything to " enhance" yourself seems rather a waste of money to me.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    For days I didn't get enough sleep...it's good for focus and that "pump" u need.
    I wish I hadn't discovered it.

    But my question also why is the FDA involved when they approve drugs that have lots of side effects? This isn't a drug.

    So, that's my other question.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    51,714
    It is a drug. And it has no history of human usage, so it should be banned.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,713
    Might that be related to taking a stimulant during the day?
     
  9. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    Other than in this product?

    If I had to connect the dots on days I sleep poorly, it would be linked to the days I take this.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    I don't take it all the time ...probably three times per week.

    Interestingly, it came back for sale in stores about six months ago. So it's odd.

    It had been reported that many high schools ban this for their athletes to play sports because they were failing their drug tests. It's molecular structure resembles meth (this is rumored no conclusive evidence)

    If it did, I imagine this wouldn't have been back on the shelves.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone.
     
  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    If it was a drug produced by a drug company for a specific purpose, then they would have to do extensive tests to find side effects.
    With this substance you are your own guinea pig.
    The ban is on its sale as a fat burner, or dietary aid, which is only right because those are medical claims.

    In April 2013, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned supplement makers that it was illegal to market DMAA as a dietary supplement, and warned consumers of potentially serious health risks associated with DMAA-containing products. (Wiki)

    Quite a few amphetamine-like decongestants have been found to cause heart attacks,
    especially after long term use.
    This one is probably no better or worse than using ephedrine,
    which was used as a fat burner before people started getting heart attacks.
    A very small fraction of its users, but enough for it to be restricted.

    I would advise you not to take it for more than a day, without a break,
    and keep to the "recommended" dose.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  11. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    Thanks captain

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    I can't help but think ...yeah this is not good for me. I eat healthy...exercise and then I take this stuff. Ha!
    But it makes you focus and perform your sport a lot better.
    It's true.

    It's too good of a product.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Leads me to a somewhat related question...Why doesn't the FDA approve vitamins?
    They don't seem to monitor the nutriceuticals world.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    hmmmm!
    your riddles always have truth in them.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    yes

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    that must be it.
     
  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    And therefore, like caffeine, it is a vasoconstrictor. Swelling is caused by dilation of blood vessels, so a vasoconstrictor counters this effect. The most common use of vasoconstrictors is for respiratory ailments, since they typically manifest swelling of the tissue in the nostrils, bronchi, etc, reducing the diameter of the passages and thereby making breathing difficult.

    But an obvious side effect of vasoconstrictors is an increase in blood pressure, since the diameter of the blood vessel is reduced, forcing the heart to pump more energetically.

    To take a vasoconstrictor while exercising may place stress on the heart. Be sure to keep one eye on the pulse monitor of your treadmill (or whatever machine you're using). If it doesn't have one, buy your own or switch to a gym that has them.

    But Viagra and other ED medications are vasodilators. By increasing the diameter of the blood vessels in the male organ, more blood is pumped through them, causing the surrounding tissues to expand. The effect is not local, and men with respiratory ailments often find that Viagra causes the tissue in their nostrils to swell so that they have to breathe through their mouth. This is not altogether inconsistent with the desired primary effect, so they rarely complain.

    This is exactly the opposite of vasoconstriction. Other than the aforementioned respiratory effect, the only other side effect of vasodilators is low blood pressure. This is not a common problem so it's generally ignored after the patient is given a thorough physical exam. If the problem occurs it's not going to cause a disaster so long as he stops taking it.

    I'm not a doctor. If you were a member of my family I'd probably figure that the risk of Jack3d is low enough that you should be allowed to make your own decision. But please do a proper risk analysis. Find the statistics on deaths and lesser but still bad consequences, and decide if that risk is worth the benefit.

    I exercise regularly and I don't use any drugs to affect my workout--except caffeine if it happens to be a day when I've been naughty. (Caffeine is a dangerous drug for me and I've been a recovering addict for fifty years.) Some days I feel like Superman, other days I feel like a slug, and I just settle for whatever level of workout I get on a given day.

    So if you were a member of my family what I'd really ask you is why you think you need a supplement. Just go to the damn gym and do the best you can. Being there provides the benefit. You don't have to spike it with drugs.

    I have to ask if one of the things in the back of your mind is weight loss. If it is, I'll tell you the secret to successful weight loss: do it sloooooowly. Don't try to lose more than one or two pounds a month. Figure out what the maintenance diet is for your target weight and start eating it. Then when you reach your target you'll already be eating the right amount. You won't have to start eating more, and get such a buzz from the extra food that you start overeating again.

    Also, by going on a starvation diet you tell the Caveman inside you (a few hundred generations of evolution is not enough, we're all still Cavemen) that there's a famine! So your body starts becoming more efficient. You sleep more, lose nervous habits, move more economically, and your digestion becomes more efficient. If you do this more than about once or twice in your whole life, your Caveman says, "Hell, this is a rotten place we live in; the food supply is unreliable." So your body goes into permanent famine mode and you'll be able to gain weight on really tiny meals. I know a woman who is 5'7" and not petite, and she gains weight on 1300 calories. Too many years of dieting!
     
  15. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    One problem is that by banning things
    they chase people onto a new and less tested drug.
    This looks to me like a substitute for ephedrine, from the Ephedra herb,
    which has been used for thousands of years.
    It's killed a few people in that time, but at least we are familiar with it.

    Instead of banning stuff, they need to give people more information.
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    @ Fraggle Rock (again)

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Just quickly...no not for weight loss. This product is to improve performance in a sport. I've been a runner/cyclist for a while and turned to weight lifting two years ago. It is primarily designed for weight lifting. I'm lifting heavier now. And this product helps you lift heavier.

    Edited/deleted the rest because I was rushing at work. Plus, it sounded vain and I'm not a vain person.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Anyway. I will try to cut back. I think I should even though its a kick ass product.

    Thanks for your feedback. Means a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  17. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    It is a supplement, so it hasn't been regulated as drugs are. I saw a documentary where a young 20s man died supposedly from using it, and his mother has been pushing for regulation and ban. So maybe that is the effect of the case...
     
  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    You have to look at things statistically.
    Everything you do entails some risk.
    People die mowing lawns, swatting flies, painting emulsion on ceilings.
    Riding horses carries a large risk of death.
    Mountaineering and motorbiking, even worse.

    For some irrational reason, people put drugs in a different category.
    When it kills you it is somehow "evil" rather than plain bad luck.
    There's never been a war on DIY, but I'm sure it kills more people a year than recreational drug reactions.
    My opinion is that people should be given as much information as possible,
    and then they should make up their own minds.
     
  19. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    Kremmen, hi

    The story above and another story I think prompted this. There was a story about a few army recruits who took it and one died. They banned it on the nearby base's health store.

    Sort of a knee jerk reaction society with a lot.

    I use it not everyday. Honestly...I used to take it before work before presentations I had to give lol and it is quite effective.
    That's when I knew...ok, you need to stop buying this. (But I didn't stop)

    What happens too is you start taking more to get the same desired effect as when u first started taking it. That too could be part of the problem.

    I do like it though.
     
  20. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    Need to take more to get the same effect.
    Still taking it at the same frequency despite wishing to reduce intake.
    I think you are right to be concerned.
    Sounds addictive to me.

    Try packing it up for a while.
    Just to see.

    I hope no-one thinks from my previous post that I am recommending people to take drugs.
    I'd be a hypocrite to do that.
    I don't smoke, haven't had a drink for months, and Cannabis makes me ill.
    I do think, however, that banning substances is counter productive:
    worse than useless.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Aw, why can't I enjoy Cannabis?
     
  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    On the container...it warns to cycle off every few days which I do. But..I do "miss" it during those days.
    I think it's very addicting if nothing else...psychologically.

    I went off it when they took it off the shelves.
    For a few months and I got over my "desire" for it.

    But here I am again.

    I don't think anyone thinks you're advocating drug use.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    I will say however that I understand how ppl get addicted to drugs.
    Something that alters your natural state for the better...you will naturally want more.

    I don't do drugs and never have either ...but I have to admit this product alters your natural state. I don't want use the word "high," but you feel...euphoric. Focused.
     
  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    What do you mean you don't do drugs?
    Seems to me that you're a Jack addict.
     
  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,364
    You know what I meant lol
     

Share This Page