The fall of the Republic?

The Weimar Republic voted Hitler into power. That's the best example I can think of.

As Pandemoni noted, the quote I gave is by an unknown author, and goes on to give a 200 year average lifetime for democracies. I have no idea if that specific aspect of the statement has any basis in reality. But other than that, it sure as hell rings true.

I mean, the Democrats and the Republicans are in a bidding war to see who can hand out the most goodies to buy our votes. Well, those goodies have to be paid for. We can't go on spending and spending and expect no consequences. At some point, you have to settle up.

You have this irrational reasoning where the Democrats say, "Bush is spending ten billion dollars per second in Iraq, so why not spend another 50 billion on this other program"

WTF! The fact that the war in Iraq is breaking the bank is not a reason to spend more money!!!!! It's a reason to spend less! We are in a war. You may not like it. You may not approve of it. You may not have voted for it. But you still have to deal with the consequences, one of which is that we have less money to spend on bullshit programs even if they are "for the children" (ie S chip or whatever that insurance program is called). Bush himself was already increasing funding for it (which is bad enough with a massive debt and a war), but the Democrats had to call his bluff and raise him another forty billion!

It's all a fuckin' game to these jackasses and we're the ones who are going to pay the price.

 

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Nine trillion dollars less than zero can never be paid off by the US government.

The currency will have to be devalued at some point.

This is what happened in the Wiemar Republic. The German government had to pay so much in World War I reparations that they simply decided to start printing money that didnt exist.

Workers would have to be paid at noon, so they could rush off and buy groceries before the prices went up.

The Bush admin is doing the same thing by tacking more zeros on to the national debt. The inevitable consequences are merely delayed.

 

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The currency is being devalued right now! We don't have the hyper inflation you describe. But there seems to be no end to the governments appetite for spending.

And while the Republicans are bad enough on this issue, look at the Democrats! Hillary is suggesting we give every child 5 grand, universal health care, retirement money, whatever you want! We'll just put it on Uncle Sam's credit card!

I think Ron Paul has the right idea on a lot of issues. For instance, why do we still have troops in Germany and South Korea? While I clearly see the need for troops in the middle east, I don't see the need to keep troops in every country we've ever fought in.

 

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I don't think any intelligent honest being has ever accused these so called conservatives of being clear thinkers. I have never known any of the prominent Republican speakers concern themselves much with facts.

 

Mad, I am so sorry. I hate to burden you and your fellow conservatives with facts. But the fact is Hitler was never elected to anything in a public election. He was appointed chancellor by entrenched politicians. Please see the following from Wikipedia:
"In 1932, Hitler intended to run against the aging President Paul von Hindenburg in the scheduled presidential elections. Though Hitler had left Austria in 1913, he still had not acquired German citizenship and hence could not run for public office. In February, however, the state government of Brunswick, in which the Nazi Party participated, appointed Hitler to a minor administrative post and also gave him citizenship on February 25, 1932.[35] The new German citizen ran against Hindenburg, who was supported by a broad range of reactionary nationalist, monarchist, Catholic, republican and even social democratic parties, and against the Communist presidential candidate. His campaign was called "Hitler über Deutschland" (Hitler over Germany).[36] The name had a double meaning; besides an obvious reference to Hitler's dictatorial intentions, it also referred to the fact that Hitler was campaigning by aircraft.[36] This was a brand new political tactic that allowed Hitler to speak in two cities in one day, which was practically unheard of at the time. Hitler came in second on both rounds, attaining more than 35% of the vote during the second one in April. "

 

I suppose its because the US likes the idea of being an international empire, as opposed to a republic minding their own business.

Ron Paul on the right and Mike Gravel on the left both want a return to the constitutional republic Americans enjoyed until the second world war.

 

Give me a break. Did he seize power in a coup? Or did he come into power by legal means involving an election? Let's not split hairs, especially not with such a holier than thou attitude. Here's the rest of the Wiki article:

So Hitler's coalition achieved a majority. He then engineered the "enabling act" which was approved by the Reichstag and gave him dictatorial powers. He was voted in! The fact that his party did not achieve an absolute majority doesn't mean shit and is the norm in a parliamentary system.

 

I think it is more likely that Christianity allowed the Roman Empire to go on for a bit longer than it otherwise would have.

The Christians were one of the first groups able to identify themselves as a subgroup within the empire without having a seperate identity. Other groups wer Gauls, Africans, Thracians, etc. They had an identity seperate from that of being Roman. Christians had no such national identity since their kingdom was not of this world. They were not Gauls, Africans or Thracians. They were Romans who happened to believe in Christ as the sone of God.

This ability to have an identity that did not compete with being Roman might well have kept the empire going for longer than it otherwise would have.

 

Well at least it took this thread a bit longer than most to descend to name calling and blaming the conservatives for all the ills of the country and by extension the world.

 

To question the truthiness of our prominent Republican speakers is to blame them for all that is wrong with the world. Such criticism is taboo; beneath this open and unprejudiced discussion. So shut up and go away, all you who sow doubt about our glorious conservatism.

 

No, they are not.

All cries of doom about baby boomers and Social Security is based on a simple, yet false assumption -- that all baby boomers will retire in traditional sense, i.e. they reach 65 and work disappears from their life. Hardly any baby boomer WANTS to do that, and most of them are in good enough health to continue working. Not necessarily full time, but even part-time work (either 15-20 hours a week, or 6 months out of a year followed by 6 months of travel) by 65-75 year olds will make tremendous difference to Social Security balance. Drastic raising of retirement age is politically unfeasible, but it is also unnecessary. Boomers will in effect do it on their own.

As for fall of American superpower... it may happen, but hardly with the same level of misery and death as fall of Rome. British Empire was a superpower, and it certainly fell -- to "mere" first rank power. How many Brits fell to ravaging babarian hordes?

 

The boomers I know are not interested in working past retirement if they don't have to.

If Rome fell because of Christians, how come Constantinople and the Eastern Roman empire didn't fall at the same time. The western roman empire grew fat, happy, and complacent. They hired mercenary police and allowed bad tough neighbors to live in their back yard. When those neighbors realized the police would look the other way they pillaged the house of their benefactor. The US will probably fall under the weight of irresponsible spending. When this happens Americans will take whatever scraps they are given and agree to whatever life preserver is presented to them.

 

Perhaps you know wrong boomers:

Why Do Boomers Plan To Work So Long?

Rethinking Retirement: More Boomers Choosing to Work

Online Job Networks for Baby Boomers

 

I'm planning on working until I die. I like my job, I hope that as I get older my position rises higher and I'm in even a better position to enjoy my work. We'll see, but I hope that's the case.

 

A 4% increase isn't what I'd call a barn burner but I guess it is a trend. Although, I bet if you asked them they'd say they mostly do it for the money or benefits. The ones I know who work after reaching that age do so because they have to.

 

I think you have proven my point very well with your own words Mad. I have been what I consider to be a conservative for decades, almost my entire life. But since the Republican part was ceded to the shrubs and the Hannity's and the Limbaughs, and all of their followers that promulgate lies to centralize and abuse power at the expense of the American people, I am ashamed and greatly saddened. When the Republicans had the congress, supreme court and presidency, they sold out the country. And these leaders had all of the neocons running with all the sense of chickens without heads running around pointing fingers at everyone but themselves. IT JUST MAKES ME Sick!