The big bang is not logical

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Norsefire, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. Reiku Banned Banned

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    11,238
    ''Reiku. You have a fairly steep slope lasting for 1,000 miles. About 3/4 of the way up, you place two balls next to each other. One rolls uphill and the other rolls downhill. That is how Hawking radiation works. Or rather, why it doesn't work.''


    Correct.... totallly.

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  3. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    Kaneda:

    Yes, that is an objection some have raised. In essence, they believe that a non-evaporating MBH would be essentially 'inert' and not capable of having matter 'fall in' to its event horizon, which would be extremely tiny relative to the diameter of a proton, for example.

    However, we know that "particles" are also actually wave-functions; i.e. even a "proton" is actually a conglomeration of standing-waves from three quarks interacting with each other. The standing wave functions have a height but they taper to zero and rise again. Accordingly, it might be possible for such "large diameter" particle as a proton to nonetheless 'fall in' to the event horizon of a MBH.

    The fact of the matter is we simply don't know, and can't tell, without experimental evidence.

    If we create MBHs by the millions [as some have suggested could occur at the Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, which has been likened to a "black hole factory" by some], and earth is not destroyed one thousand years from now, then we would know they were likely safe. Conversely, we might be seeding the earth with millions of slowly-growing MBHs which could wreak havoc for our future tens to hundreds of years from now, if they don't evaporate and do in fact slowly grow.

    Perhaps the GLAST satellite [see Scientific American, December, 2007, Window on the Extreme Universe by Atwood, Michelson and Ritz] will reveal evaporating MBHs. I would not bet on it, however.
     
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  5. losfomoT Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    No, redshift doesn't indicate distance (not directly), redshift tells us how fast something is moving away from us.

    If you believe in Hubbles law, then you can confidently use redshift to estimate distance, but then you are admitting expansion.

    What do you mean 'many'? I know of ONE: the Andromeda Galaxy. If there are more, there aren't many more, and they would all be fairly close to our galaxy.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Notes Around

    I'll point you to Columbia University physics student Leven Wadley and University of West Indies student David Latchman, who answer the question, "Are there any galaxies that have a blue-shift":

    You appear to be suggesting a static universe and mere errors in calculation to explain the concept of a red-shift.

    • • •​

    Part of the problem is that there is much disagreement at present about the nature of the fourth dimension. On this point, I would simply reiterate that scientists continue to work toward gathering new information to augment our understanding of the physical properties of the universe. Comparatively, religious revelations are not at present providing any new information. If you hear from God anytime soon, let me know. I would be very interested.

    Were I a physicist, I might postulate regarding the interaction of time and gravity in relation to universal expansion. But I'm not, so I'll have to leave that for someone else on another day.

    Just remember this simple illustration:

    Theistic origins information: |—>—>—>|
    Scientific origins information: |—>—>—>—>—>—>—>—>—> ... (and on, and on, and on)​

    The scientific body of information will continue to grow as long as humans continue to inquire. It is one of the universe's rare guarantees that our species will cease to exist, either by wholesale extinction or evolutionary transformation into a different species, before we run out of new information to collect and learn from.

    • • •​

    On edit for losfomoT

    According to Latchman (above): "There are about 100 known galaxies with blueshifts .... Most of these galaxies are in our own local group, and are all in orbit around each other."

    He offers this link, with the note that "negative velocities in the z column are the blue shifted galaxies". (Note: The link is a search result from a database, and takes a while to load.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  8. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

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    10,717
    We are at the center of the universe. This is obvious since everything is moving away from us. This is clear proof that the creator made us as the center of his creation. Nothing could be more obvious.

    What's even more obvious is what exosts beyond the edge of the universe. Anyone care to guess? No?


    Heaven you sillies.


    I give up.
     
  9. losfomoT Unregistered User Registered Senior Member

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    You learn something new every day. Thanks.
     
  10. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Tiassa,

    I'm not suggesting an expanding universe, I'm suggesting a rotating universe.
     
  11. Dr Mabuse Percipient Thaumaturgist Registered Senior Member

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    714

    i mentioned it as i have been interested in his ideas for a few years... and it is so directly pertinent to this discussion...

    well i think, since about 10 years ago when his ideas were first becoming known, and then well known in the physics community... the 'tag line' for his ideas have become known as "The Holographic Universe"... a simple google of his name starts you well on the road to knowing about him and his ideas... but since you asked directly, here are some direct links... not sure they are 'the best', but they at least give you an intro to him, his ideas and work...

    Link...

    Link...

    Link...

    below is a general google link if you care to look into this further...

    Link...
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    34,752
    Tell me about it. I haven't studied astronomy since my PHYS 122 final over a decade ago. Every once in a while, though, something strikes me as counterintuitive (e.g. blue-shifting galaxies). And, indeed, I find myself learning something new just by looking into the phrase.

    'Tis my pleasure, sir. I'm happy to be of use to someone, sometime ....

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    • • •​

    Of static dimensions? Either way, that's a new one to me. Fascinating. Thank ye.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  13. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    You're welcome

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  14. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    The local group of galaxies which despite being fairly diffuse is able to overcome "expansion" and stay together.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group
     
  15. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    1,334
    As all very massive things in the universe rotate, I would be surprised if the universe itself did not rotate too.
     
  16. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Walter LW. A bit like hitting a bomb with a hammer to see if it is a live bomb.
     
  17. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

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    Dr Mabuse. Thanks for the links. I'll check into them more when I get home again, as apart from having to pay for internet while on my 3 month break, internet cafes are often very noisy places and not the sort of place to study anything.

    The guy is certainly prolific. I do worry in such fields where people make asserttions which are based on assertions, which are based on earlier assertions, etc. What if one of the basic principles is found to be wrong? A whole field of knowledge could collapse.
     
  18. Donnal Registered Member

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    i reckon its too big to understand like humungous big so huge
    they call it big bang like a collision
    who knows what happened
    could have been made by a heap of scientists or aliens just to see what happened in there time
    prolly why we got diff colours and diff cultures for them to look at us and see what went wrong in there homes in that heavens or what ever
    other wise wouldnt we have help on hand if we werent just for the seeing eye
    if were that dam special then we would
    we dont have no help on hand we suffer and we see hungry kids and we car accidents
    we never see anything dam good not yet anyway
    if we advance so do diseases and pain is more in the menu

    we cant fit it in our brains the big band..but we fit every day life like driving riding bikes
    but then our permanent section of brain is full so its impossible for our brain to be filled with big bang instead of reading spelling maths if we had little of this input then we could fit the big bang in but thats impossible cause no here can teach us
    so everyone is left to wonder when its so dam logical when you look at it
    you create the big bang if its been used already it cant be used again can only go so far
    but if one person knew it all would anyone believe em
    i doubt that very much there will always be judgement against people that are right
    and yet there is no one to agree or disagree cause no one knows what happened

    its a dangerous thing to dabble in things one dont know about when no one dabbles in aliens they dont go out for coffee but yet they want to dabble in a very dangerous dark
    mirracles they call super strings they say theres only three super strings to do with the big bang
    i have different views bout that the hevens have a way to fit in to accordance
    like music when its off key it can get angry
    when you smash anti and matter together they will get very angry
    like the greek mythology bout the flickering white and black things they locked the white one up cause of disease was spread over lands and people were sick
    yet know one dabbles in that no more i guess people will learn their lesson when they figure out you cant smash the matters together at high speeds
    a little thing can cuase devastation
    i say they are up to more than trying to figure out the big bang i say its a weather thing
    more of a dangerous weapon and they dont realise it
    i dont believe that the warming has caused harm to this old earth
    this only happened when they dabbled in that big bang thing and they cover it up by other things
    they even spent billions of dollars on machinery to put this matters together when any one with half a brain would know you cant eat you apple when its been eaten
    in other words cant be used again
    these people are smart yet how come they still putting it together
    yeah they upto more than you think
    well thats my perception anyway
     
  19. Donnal Registered Member

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    thats why you dont think its logical cause its bloody not its
    a weather thing and they cant control it

    dont even think in the line of space or births of space
    they dont want that they after weapons mate
     
  20. Donnal Registered Member

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    they think we are fucking stupid
    pardon my french
     
  21. Donnal Registered Member

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    trust your instincts if it dont seem logicial then its not
     
  22. Donnal Registered Member

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    they say gravity i say thats a block to stop you getting closer to the truth
    cause gravity has control over our minds not our insticts
     
  23. Donnal Registered Member

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    when i sat for those tests when i was a kid they tought me colours and grey mass is a gravity colour and thaqt colour is hard to break thru like our atmosphere
     

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