# The absurdity of it all ...

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by DaveW, Feb 9, 2000.

1. ### DaveWRegistered Senior Member

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243
I just read an article about the upcoming Star Wars movie and the controversy over ethnic stereotypes.

I quote: "Stung by charges of ethnic stereotyping in The Phantom Menace,'' Lucasfilm is seeking a more culturally diverse cast for the next Star Wars'' episode."

They then say: "Although George Lucas' script is far from finished, Lucasfilm casting director Robin Gurland has met with major talent agencies to outline several new roles. These include a Native American character, said to have a forceful, spiritual nature; an Indian or Hispanic character; and an Asian character, possibly trained in martial arts."

Does anyone else see this as entirely absurd?? Their solution seems to be to replace blatant racial slurs with more subtle, socially acceptable stereotypes. The fact that they're still stereotyping everyone just slipped past this reporter (and Lucasfilm).

Aaah...the simplicity of a world where everything can be boiled down to a single sentence.

3. ### OxygenOne Hissy KittyRegistered Senior Member

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2,478
I wholeheartedly agree with you. What is the difference between saying "All oriental people are martial artists" and "All oriental people are lousy drivers"? I find a similar thing occurring with "Affirmative Action". What's the difference in hiring someone because of their ethnicity and not hiring or firing someone because of their ethnicity?

I think that racism is allowed only if it benefits the race in question. Could this be a good form of racism, although not for anybody who is not of that particular race? Can racism have a positive side?

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I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

5. ### Corp.HudsonRegistered Senior Member

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419
To DaveW: I didn't see any racial slurs in the new star wars...

Oxygen: I dont think you fully understand affirmitive action. Although I dont agree with it, it is much more complex then you have presented it. A person cannot be hired simply because of their race, black or white. But, if a company with unproportionatly white staff has equally qualified black and white applicants, they must pick the black one.

7. ### OxygenOne Hissy KittyRegistered Senior Member

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2,478
It's still racism. The black one must be picked because he or she is black. Why not let the employer just go with whichever one he or she is most comfortable with? I am glad it was voted out. What you describe may be one of the functions, but in practice I have seen it done this way:

Because this neighborhood is mostly hispanic, your workforce must be mostly hispanic. Competence on the job is not a factor. Your workforce must represent the ethnic demographic of the area.

It's racism, plain and simple, but since it mostly goes against white people, it's okay, because we all know that all white people are rich and don't need the money anyway. Right? (That was sarcasm, in case you're reading this with your eyes closed...

)

[This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited February 15, 2000).]

8. ### TIME02112Registered Senior Member

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You haven't seen Nothing yet, in the Future we will be even more "Seperated" as we finish mapping out the human genome.

There will come a TIME when all humans will seggragate themselves of classification, Role, Career, and matting; according to "Genetic Order"

Yes, just like in the Movie "Gattica" much of this was based upon some very good possibile outcomes such as on human behavior, and the direction of our technology.

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Time02112@mailcity.com http://pages.bolt.com/other/time02112

[This message has been edited by TIME02112 (edited March 13, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by TIME02112 (edited March 13, 2000).]

9. ### RamblerSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

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509
I have the Unofficial Trailer, its 3 meg if you want it let me know.

For episode 2 that is.
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work to LIVE...don't live to WORK.

[This message has been edited by Rambler (edited March 14, 2000).]

10. ### dexterROOTRegistered Senior Member

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689
just give me the goddammed trailer!!!!!

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when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

-dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)

11. ### RamblerSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

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Sorry guys I've been ill. I just got back into work today. When I told you I had the Unofficial trailer that is what it was sent to me as, that very day. I hadn't actualy seen it at that stage. I have seen it now and it looks like a fake, clips from other movies. Some bits with leo decrapio look legit. If you still want it let me know.

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work to LIVE...don't live to WORK.

12. ### dexterROOTRegistered Senior Member

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689
i want it

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when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

-dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)

13. ### RamblerSenior MemberRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
509
ok let me know how to get it to you. I don't think I can send a 3 Mb file to hotmail.

[This message has been edited by Rambler (edited March 23, 2000).]

14. ### TiassaLet us not launch the boat ...Staff Member

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35,706
About 1992 or '93, I recall hearing a theatrical union and a gay rights organization (LGBA or QN, I think) up in arms because there wasn't a gay cast member in Lips Together, Teeth Apart, by Terrence MacNalley, in which AIDS is a central spectre. I sympathized with the complaints at the time, and then I saw the Pentacle Theatre, in Salem, Oregon, perform Lips Together.

The gay character is already dead at the start of the play. The essential cast is two heterosexual, married couples.

In light of that, what the heck was Robin Williams doing in The Birdcage?

Among Hollywood culture, I'm most worried about cultural blanching (Pocohontas, Disney), and an active stereotyping occurring in animated films (Disney included). During the Cold War, oafish villains often had German or Russian accents, marking them as allegories of the Iron Curtain. In the last 10-15 years, though, we've seen an increase in the number of Arabic-sounding villains. It wasn't so much a question of the villains voices in Disney's Aladdin, but the full West-Coast American accent of the hero. Typically, animated protagonists have American or English accents, and the antagonists bear "Iron Sheik" oafishness and accents through the roof.

But, as pertains to Star Wars ... I think race isn't important in a science fiction adventure. Reality is only suggested allegory; it isn't supposed to be real or just.

Furthermore, I recall that during the Benneton rage of the last decade, we saw a number of culturally defiant commercials, ranging from the Bon Marche to the Jamaican tourist board. I mean, I understand having one black, three caramel, and one white child singing "Day-o, one day sale-o!", but it got really bad to me when I saw a cultural rainbow singing Bob Marley for the Jamaican tourist board. I'm sorry, dear, but you're Chinese ... you do not exactly bring Trenchtown to mind. Why not just hire David Duke to push vacation packages to the Ivory Coast while singing Ibo chants?

I'll leave Affirmative Action out of it on the grounds that residents of my state have recently been duped into cancelling it. This is not so much a problem except that we now know that those who pushed the ballot initiative were disingenuous, and are actually seeking to destroy the very economy that brought Seattle (and Washington) to its present state. Since that's a different issue entirely, though, I'll shut up about it.

My bigger question about Star Wars casting is, "What's up with the front-tier stars?" Why the marquee names? Who was Mark Hamill before he was Luke Skywalker? Carrie Fisher was best known nude. Harrison Ford? He was Spielberg's handyman. David Prowse? Big name on Broadway, but what movie buff knew him? James Earl Jones? Sure, but he never appears onscreen.

I thought McGregor did fine as Obi-Wan, and Neeson was more convincing than other SW players. But did I see mention of Leo D? That in itself is enough to make me consider forsaking Star Wars. I will not tolerate that talentless freak in a Star Wars film. Sure, Hamill couldn't act, but he wasn't famous when he got the job. And his acting credibility has been typecast ever since. (Slipstream was cool, but he was outplayed.)

Okay, I'm so far off on a tangent.

But thanx for putting up with my two cents.

--Tiassa

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The whole business with the fossilized dinosaur eggs was a joke the paleontologists haven't seen yet. (Good Omens, Gaiman & Pratchett)

15. ### dexterROOTRegistered Senior Member

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689
leo is a hella good actor, as i recall from the movie "whats eating gilbert grape" he played the retared boy.... arnie and he did a damn good job, i respect his talent, but its just that the girls have gone ovverboard with him and n'sinc and backstreetboys.

so i conclude with the statment that leo would do a good job in the new movie, he evna kinda looks like a anikan... but the lines would be evan longer

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when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

-dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)

16. ### DaveWRegistered Senior Member

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243
Since it's all about money, it would seem to be a wise decision to take the star of Titanic and put him in a Star Wars film. Maybe we could also throw in a Pokemon character instead of Jar Jar. (gee...I should be a Hollywood exec)

17. ### dexterROOTRegistered Senior Member

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lol.........your exactly right davew... although pokemon has gone down on the populatity scale, trust me... i am in the junior high... and well i accually support leo being in the star wars film besides the age old rule of starwars that sais that the main charachters cant be popular actors
(i made that one up) but if any one else has anything on the movie, i wouold love to hear bout it.... thanx

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when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

-dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)

18. ### OxygenOne Hissy KittyRegistered Senior Member

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2,478
Personally, I don't care who they put in what role, as long as the actor or actress does a good job.

BTW, Tiassa, thanks for not getting me going on again about affirmative action. We are apparently of differing opinions on the matter, as I have been victimized twice by it. I am glad it's gone. Just thought I'd mention that. If you'd like to discuss it, though, start a thread in World Affairs and I'll offer my two cents'. I promise to behave.

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I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

19. ### dexterROOTRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
689
does anyone get what i just said??? cause i sure as hell dont

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when christianity ruled the world, it was called the dark ages.

-dexter (nimrod242 :aol sn)