Discussion in 'Human Science' started by thecollage, May 23, 2011.

  1. thecollage Registered Senior Member

    My wife continues to text a married male co-worker even after I asked her to stop. It happens on their days off. They also call each other from time to time outside of work.

    Thoughts on this please?
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    What are they texting about? What are they talking about?
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    It's time to tell her to choose who she wants to have around. If you are who she wants then she should abide by what you ask, if its not to overbearing. If she wants male friends and you can't handle it then perhaps you should let her know how you feel and what you will do if she continues.
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  7. thecollage Registered Senior Member

    Previously she deleted all texts and said they were about work matters. Bitching about other people. She saved one set of texts and that is in fact what they were about. I perceive this to be the beginning of an emotional affair which is disturbing. If our relationship was solid this would not bother me. However, for her to seek out friendship or a "buddy" outside of our marriage to carry on with when she knows I do not like it I find that to be very disrespectful. She also said she would stop, and it does, then it starts again. Recently I notice the communication to be when I am gone or away from the house.

    In addition I have been insulted and verbally, emotionally and physically abused by her in the past. It seems to me that she has a complete lack of regard for my feelings. When I bring this up I am referred to as annoying or disgusting, etc.
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Have you told her that you're worried she is starting/having an extra-marital affair? If so, what was her response?

    If she has previously promised not to contact this guy and then still goes ahead and does it, that shows a lack of respect for you as well as a moral failure in terms of keeping one's promises. You shouldn't make promises you won't keep.

    I think you need to consider what is at stake in your marriage. What are the benefits for you to stay together? What could you gain by divorce?

    A marriage in which one spouse has "a complete lack of regard" for the feelings of the other is in deep, deep trouble. And being in a relationship where you are insulted and abused doesn't sound like much fun to me. Why stay?

    Something needs to change, one way or the other. And I think that needs to start with communication.

    Does she know you are insulted and upset by her behaviour towards you? Does she care? If not, I really can't see how you can possibly live a happy, fulfilled life while remaining in the relationship.

    A marriage is a two-way thing. If one partner stops respecting the other, it's essentially over, even if you remain under the same roof.

    Reading between the lines, I get the feeling that she thinks she can walk all over you and never needs to worry that you'll leave. Is that true? If so, it will do terrible things to your self-esteem in the long run.
  9. Bells Staff Member

    I actually thought your OP was a bit of a joke. But you appear to be serious..

    Do you trust your wife?

    Why don't you like her to have friends of the opposite sex?

    More to the point, why are you so insecure that you demand your wife has no friends who happen to be male?

    Or she could just be needing someone to talk to and to bitch about work with? Maybe? Why do you think they are having an "emotional affair"?

    So your wife isn't allowed friends outside of your marriage without your permission?

    Could it be that she may view your lack of trust in her to be disrespectful, to the point where you dictate who her friends can and cannot be?

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    Again, I ask, why do you not trust her with friends? Why do you feel that her having friends outside of your marriage is disrespectful to you?

    Why didn't you call the police?

    Or leave?

    So in this marriage, you do not allow her to have friends or "buddy's" outside of the marriage (ie anyone who isn't you) and she verbally and physically abuses you. Seems your whole marriage is based on abuse, from both sides tbh.

    Just as you seem to have a complete lack of trust and regard for her.

    I have many male friends, some of whom are my best friends and all of whom I speak to on the phone, text and see without my husband by my side. We even go out to dinner on many occasions, without my husband, or we go to the movies, or art galleries.. without my husband. One of them is a former co-worker.

    Get it?

    Learn to trust and not be so suspicious or demand that she cannot have friends outside of your marriage.
  10. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    I tend to agree wit Bells here.

    You and she should have a serious conversation (which it sounds like you have, but one more more time). If you can't reach a mutually agreeable solution , then the only open paths are (i) to see a marriage counselor or (ii) to leave her.

    If she's abusive, that's bad, but it does not justify your demanding that she stop being friends with this guy if she doesn't agree that you should have that power.

    Two things to consider, though: First, you have no evidence I can see that they are having an "emotional affair". You have fears that they are, but nothing is confirmed apart from their friendship. Perhaps you might consider getting to be friends with this guy yourself? Second, as this becomes more of a stress in your relationship, it's possible that she'll hew to this guy even more.

    If you want very dangerous advice, and you know how to access your wife's cell phone, look into downloading spyware onto her phone so that you can see what she's really texting. That said, if you go that route, be prepared for that act to end your marriage when she finds out (even if her relationship with the guy is innocent).
  11. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

    Leave her, fuck life is too short.
  12. thecollage Registered Senior Member

    After multiple attempts to speak with her regarding this she says "it's the same old shit." I have approached this in a cool calm manner and I have also approached it in a very firm manner. I have not made demands until recently. Prior to that I tried to understand with the agreement that we would work on things in our own relationship first. Personally I feel that has been one sided.

    I have no problem with her having friends (male or female) at work, outside of work, etc. However, when our marriage is not in order and I find her seeking someone else out to talk with about whatever it may be I perceive that as a threat. A very serious threat.

    As for counseling, I have set up an appointment before, then we cancelled it because things seemed to get better. Then I again suggested that we speak with someone because things again headed south. I asked her to contact a counselor on her days off and try and find a time that works and one that works with her insurance. She took no steps to contact one. She indicated that she was too busy or said that she would get around to it. That never happened.

    Ever since we have had children she has isolated me. The kids came first after they were born and she said she wanted to be a stay at home mom. I honored her wanting to do that and fully supported. Financially we have had a tough time the past couple of years with the recession and myself being self employed. She would spend on the children to the point of no end. Buying them toys all the time. In one instance she spend $4000 in a period of a couple of months on various things for the kids and her. I explained that we really needed her to return to work because we were struggling financially. Now after her return to work, work comes right after the kids, sometimes before. Now we have a co-worker who she seems to feel is more important than communicating with her husband or respecting my feelings. As much as I hate to admit and it sounds selfish or immature, I come last. She says she is busy, tired or has other things to do.

    To me, this is not what a marriage is intended to be. I have made countless efforts to provide, understand, support and relate to her needs. I am lucky if she folds my laundry. Usually it is just tossed in a basket. Not that I expect this but it is a kind gesture. When I fold her laundry to try and help her and free up her time, I don't do it right. I don't make the right folds.

    Sure, jealously...absolutely I am jealous. My wife is more interested in talking to some guy she has known six months over someone she has been with ten years.

    I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.
  13. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    You know in your heart that things aren't right, and now she looks to other people for her emotional needs. Counseling is probably a good option, but your marriage is probably going to fail. Divorce her before she walks out on you.
  14. thecollage Registered Senior Member

    It is pretty safe to say that my self esteem has been destroyed. That leads me to feel like a worthless piece of shit who's options are very limited. Knowing if I do take the first step I will be painted as the most evil person to walk the face of the earth to my children. She has already told them on multiple occasions how bad of a father I am and how to not be a bad husband like me when they grow up. This usually comes after I lose my temper and become angry with an outburst because I have reached my breaking point. I know that is not right and I can truly say I have been better at not doing that recently.

    Often times people only hear one side of the story. I do not want to convey the message as if I am a perfect husband. I have my flaws but I work hard to do what is right and I feel I have been doing better.
  15. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Time to be moving along I'd say. Try to have an amicable divorce but always get a lawyer to insure you don't get screwed.
  16. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    TheCollage, IMO, you are accurate in your perceptions, and you're sensing the end of your marriage. I agree with Spidergoat, and I will expand on his post.

    Most importantly, you are responsible for what you do, and she is responsible for what she does. Your kids may not know what to think now, and may even take her side, but some day they'll realize that you were right and she was wrong.

    Second, most people don't stray at first for the sex, but for the sympathetic ear, a shoulder to cry on, like-mindedness, etc. She's spending 40 house a week with him, how much is she spending with you?

    Third, if she's really the type to bitch a lot about co-workers, then she's also the type to draw a circle around herself and to label those outside the circle as "them". By how you describe her abuses of you and her lack of love for you, you are now outside of her circle ... you're one of "them". However, he is obviously inside her circle.

    Fourth, her failure to go to counseling with you (even if once only to humor you) also shows that she's all done with you.

    Finally, buy a good book on how to win at divorce, but make sure you keep it locked away. Keep a daily diary of your marriage/family relationships, and keep it locked away too. Keep the transaction records for your/her credit cards because they will probably come in handy.

    Make sure to be a model husband/father at least until the divorce is over (generally, stop drinking/drugging, get rid of any porn, be nice to *everyone*, don't swear, don't make waves, maybe start going to church, make sure you take the kids places regularly (fishing, museum, library, inlaws, church, shopping, anything, etc), make some meals -- if only sandwiches -- for the kids, etc). Take pictures of you with the kids, and secure them. Make diary entries about your time with them. Never give her the slightest excuse for calling the police, because they *will* kick you out.

    Never say anything bad about your children's mother in front of them. This is called "disparagement", which the courts now recognize as being bad for kids (because kids identify with their parents). Make diary entries for all instances that she disparages you to them. Parents can teach their children how to be good people without using the other parent as a bad example. Don't let her lure you into blowing your top. Seek counseling if only to help with your self esteem.

    Consider suing for divorce on grounds other than no-fault (eg, for infidelity, cruel and abusive treatment, abandonment, whatever). Gather evidence against her, and use a detective if necessary (and pay in cash so it doesn't show up on a credit card record). Find out more about this guy.

    Find an honest, hard-working, respected divorce lawyer (ie, don't get a "bomber", that is, one who goes for the jugular, because it's not ethical and judge's generally don't like them. Ask around and make sure you find a lawyer who is on the man's side (because there are lawyers, even male lawyers, who look down upon men who have failed at marriage, and they won't work hard for you). Your choice of lawyer shows the judge how decent/ethical you are. Don't waste your money paying a lawyer to be your therapist; instead, productively deal with your emotions in counseling. If there's a particular lawyer in your area that you don't want to go up against, you can preempt her from using him/her if you consult with the him/her first -- then s/he can't represent your wife after you have told him/her your side.
  17. Bells Staff Member

    You remind me of my husband to be honest. Only his demand was that I cover my head when my hair fell out and then started to grow back and was very short. What for me was a renewal and a sense of victory was for him something of disgust and 'I prefer you with long hair'..

    You mean like you are opening up here to us, complete strangers about her?

    Have you ever considered that your wife may just want to bounce stuff off with someone who is not you who may judge her or make demands or react emotionally because you don't feel she respects you or your wishes? You know, bounce stuff off on a friend? She does not have to tell you everything. She may be going through her own issues and demanding she stops talking to someone she may very well consider to be a friend says more about you than it does about her. Sometimes it's easier to say things to a friend than it is to say to one's spouse who is demanding she does not be friends with someone at work because of a sense of insecurity that she may be becoming emotionally involved. Friendships are emotional involvements. If you feel that as a threat, then really, that's not good for you.

    So why don't you re-set up another appointment with the same counsellor? After all, you seem to know at least one, since you booked and then cancelled it because you seemed to believe that things weren't that bad.

    She may simply believe that things aren't that bad so she hasn't called one, just as you didn't think it was bad enough to keep the appointment you made, instead choosing to cancel it.

    That is the nature of having children. They do come first, as do their needs. Do you think she is developing too much of an emotional attachment to them as well?

    She could very well be the type of person who wants to make sure her children are never lacking or wanting of anything and wanting to give them everything she may have been denied as a child.

    Ah, here we come to the crux of the issue.

    Have you ever considered that you are very emotionally needy? To the point that you are complaining that she put your children first? Now you are complaining that she has friends she speaks to after you demanded and ordered her not to speak to..

    You seem to forget that you are still the person she comes home to every day, even if you do whine about her speaking to her friends or putting the children's needs before your own.


    I never let my husband fold or even do my laundry. Ever. The man folded things in a prissy fashion that drove me up the wall, while he'd throw in every colour under the sun with my whites... And he hated the way that I folded because I didn't do shop folds... Do your own laundry and let her do her own.

    Seems that you are more jealous that you are not the centre of her universe. She probably feels more comfortable speaking to "some guy" who is her friend because he is not jealous about everything she does.

    Your wife has friends.. deal with it.. just as you have friends and she probably deals with it. I'd suggest you get counselling for yourself and then try and see if you can get couple's counselling. Being jealous of friends is not healthy and complaining that she put your children's needs first.. dude? Seriously?
  18. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Given what you've added, Cifo's advice is excellent. It seems to me that you face that dreaded situation of being in love with someone who makes you miserable. At some point, you need to let your head take control of the situation and forget about indulging your emotional connection with her. That won't be easy, but you can't reasonably expect a relationship that has made you this unhappy will be "fixed" in the future. It will continue on, more or less just as it has.

    From what you say, it doesn't seem like it's worth it.

    I would say that I never believed that, once married, people stop developing crushes on other people. So, it's possible she has a crush on this guy, and him on her, because that's human nature (though it's an aspect of human relationships only rare couples can handle discussing openly). It doesn't mean anything will come of it, but since she sounds like an evil bitch, you never know.

    I'd find the kind of lawyer Cifo referenced now, before suggesting anything to her, and let him advise you on the best way to exist this nightmare in a careful way.
  19. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Marriage counseling or end it.

    Why does she have to be the one to arrange it? Why can't you?

    My spouse and I are doing couples' counseling, we were talking big D.
    It's working...it really really is.
    That badmouthing crap-whether it's just her or as I suspect you're doing it too or doing it in return?
    That has got to stop.

    Suggest you print out the following list, read it, obey it, stick it on the fridge:

    And yes, we do, and yes, it helps.

    Our therapist/referee is training us to use "I" statements.

    FWIW, I have had multiple crushes during my marriage...am rather having one now-and it's very annoying. I usually both discuss this with my wife with much apologies (and she sometimes has found my objects of affection hysterically funny...) and then ask for more attention, more closeness, more snuggling and...erm, you know...:shake:

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    I find this helps me get over whoever it was pretty quickly. My wife is awesome.
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  20. Skeptical Registered Senior Member

    This whole thread is not only ridiculous, but dangerous.
    While I have sympathy for TheCollage, this is not the venue for this kind of advice. All those well meaning people who are giving advice, my strongest advice to you is to stop!

    None of us know truly what is going on here. We are getting a point of view from one side only, and a very incomplete description of the background. Simply, we do not know enough about this situation to give useful advice, and some of the advice given might be horribly destructive, simply because of our ignorance. So, everyone, if you have a shred of good sense, lay off.

    If TheCollage needs help, then there are many professionals who can do that. A long session with a professional, within which all issues are laid bare, may just lead to the proper resolution. All us ignorant, well meaning, but potentially destructive idiots, can only do harm.
  21. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Or he could just chain her up in his cellar.
  22. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Why is your marriage not in order?

    Apart from that, what Bells said. My partner has male friends, and co-workers. She has a male personal trainer. Difference between you and I? I trust her.
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  23. thecollage Registered Senior Member

    I tried to discuss this in a rational manner with her last evening. She became angry with me because I brought it up. They boys fell asleep in our bed and I decided to go lay with her in our son's bed just to be close to her. Absolutely no hidden agenda. She again became angry and told me to leave. I said I just wanted to lay with her and she became disgusted with me. I said the boys were in our bed and there was no room. She went and got one of the boys and came back and said "problem solved, now leave!"

    She did say she would call a counselor. I am really just at a loss here. Maybe just wanting opinions. Ultimately the decisions will be mine and her's.

    This morning I went a got her an iced coffee before she left for work. She did say thanks in a text which was nice.

    I find Bells to be rather angry. Probably because her husband sounds like a real jerk to say things like that to her about her hair.

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