Ten ways religion makes us dumber

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Magical Realist, Feb 2, 2018.

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  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So what's your point? Besides just being proven wrong that all beliefs have their problems.
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Gee MR, I'm mortified!!

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    But any goose can really see the connection and similarity...so let me baby sit you through it. Most of the nuts and cooks that claim UFO's, or a proportion of them are of Alien origin, reject the scientific methodology in reaching their erroneous conclusions, just as zealot fanatical religious nuts reject science and the scientific method.
    Bye MR

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  5. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Do you really not get that "all beliefs" was in contrast to "facts"?
    I would have said all beliefs, fact or not, had problems, if I didn't want to make that distinction.
    Is it really that hard to understand?
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I should never have fed this troll. Back to ignoring them.
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Hi paddoboy..I hope you are well.

    There may be a connection but in MR threads we dont see religious folk popping in like witnessed in post two.

    But probably it was not a bad thing because it makes one realise that at least there are many reports about UFOs and some by folk that at least causes even a skeptic like me to look and say what could they have seen...And of course there are folk who read all sorts of things into the various reports...

    But there are many many reports of unexplained sightings and they are called UFOs... but not any reports of a God sighting..why? Probably because to see God just will never happen.

    There was a dept in USA to investigate but none for God.

    For my money there is probably a higher probabilty that a UFO turns out to be from out there than God turning up.

    After all we know we are starting to travell into space which lends more chance for a alien ufo than anything in terms of the second coming.

    In any event I find no problem with MRs list I think he nails it very well...and to bring ufo into the game really is off topic, although that is a crime that even I have been guilty of...

    It is a pity the arguement does not come from someone rejecting MRs claims in the OP because that would be interesting but trying to settle old scores seems a waste of time.

    The bloke you agree with cant address any point in the OP and even though his post is cute I dont see relevance and all he has done is to draw you in and side track the discussion...thats bad enough but you fell for it.

    I do wish you could be around more and I hope you are ok.

    You are such a part of this site, you once had the most likes so it was not only me who enjoyed your posts.
    All the best.
    Alex
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well lets move past that and let us hear your comments on matters listed in the OP...
    do you have any comments or are you only interested in sidetracking the thread?

    Alex
     
  10. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    I guess is was too hard to understand.
    Already did here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/ten-ways-religion-makes-us-dumber.160520/#post-3502380
     
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    OK you are on record as evasive...your bad not mine.
    Alex
     
  12. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Have not been to this thread

    As soon as I read the original post I would have done the same as Vociferous off topic or not

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  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting.
    Could you explain why?
    I think I know why thinking about it but I want to hear your view.
    Thank you in anticipation of a reply...
    Alex
     
  14. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Will get back to you on that

    I might work on

    this first

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  15. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    1. Makes you more accepting of beliefs based on authority than on evidence and logic. "We believe because the Bible says so."

    Can be good to accept beliefs based on authority - depending on the authority. If the Sargent says "Forward. We are going to take that hill" That is not the time to ask "How do you know that? Based on what evidence?"

    2. Makes you adverse to science and other fields because their theories conflict with your beliefs.

    Not necessarily so. Many Scientists believe in god. Does not seem to bother them

    3. Keeps you studying one book all your life and so keeps you ignorant about the rest of human knowledge.

    Hadn't heard that angle. Is that carved in stone somewhere?

    4, Habituates you to believing whatever makes you feel good.

    What's wrong in feeling good?

    5. Elevates blind faith to a virtue to be cultivated.

    Blind faith maybe the faith which opens your eyes to other possibilities

    6. Keeps you from questioning by condemning doubt as a sin.

    Has doubt been condemned as sin? Have you a link to such evidence?

    7. Surrounds you with like-minded believers where your beliefs will never be challenged.

    So you gain a lot of like minded friends. Is that bad?

    8. Lessens one's respect for education and learning new things.

    Again have not heard that angle. Is that carved in stone somewhere?

    9. Makes you accepting of illogical and irrational propositions. "God is three persons in one."

    I was a child
    I became a man
    Now I am a grumpy old bastard

    3 in 1

    10. Elevates infallibity to a virtue.

    It is. Just that nobody / thing has it from the pope do to slime mold and below

    OK done

    Now for

    I, like Vociferous, find it strange that someone who is so passionate in believing irrational stuff about UFOs seems to be against the largest object of disbelief religion

    I would have thought he would have been championing the ascension to heaven as proof of early UFOs visitation

    I think I know why thinking about it but I want to hear your view.

    Does that match your explanation?

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  16. sowhatifit'sdark Valued Senior Member

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    Magical Realist

    1. Makes you more accepting of beliefs based on authority than on evidence and logic. "We believe because the Bible says so."


    Most people accept most of their beliefs on authority. That is the kinds of beliefs that relate to things that did not happen to you personally. Though even these latter are often so heavily interpreted through questionable authorities that is it true there also. Look at the way people medicate away their feelings these through and view them through the lens the pharmaceutical companies will have them view their emotions. Partly this is because no one has time to do all the research themselves. We have social knowledge which is one of our strengths as a species. But it does open us up to all sorts of problems.

    2. Makes you adverse to science and other fields because their theories conflict with your beliefs.

    It sure can do this. If you are religious and your ideas do not contradict current scientific knowledge this is not a problem. There is much more room for that than most skeptics seem to imagine, mainly having fundamentalist Christianity as their model for religion.

    3. Keeps you studying one book all your life and so keeps you ignorant about the rest of human knowledge.

    Yah, see above. A problematic generalization.

    4, Habituates you to believing whatever makes you feel good.

    I don't see that at all. Even the fundamentalists seem rather angry and scared, including fears of people who are not like them and even of their God. Religious people feel guilt shame. Number 4 contradicts the criticisms of religion by other skeptics and atheists.

    5. Elevates blind faith to a virtue to be cultivated.

    The addition of the word 'blind' gives us nothing extra to work on. Certainly those religions that emphasize faith do this, others are more empirical and do not. Again the model is likely fundamentalist Christianity, though even here most of those people will use arguments based on empiricism and deduction, though generally not about things like the existence of God.

    6. Keeps you from questioning by condemning doubt as a sin.

    Again, the same generalization based likely on a single model.

    7. Surrounds you with like-minded believers where your beliefs will never be challenged.

    Sounds like homo sapiens.

    8. Lessens one's respect for education and learning new things.

    Op-cit.

    9. Makes you accepting of illogical and irrational propositions. "God is three persons in one."

    Ibid. But further, there are many ways to take such statements and just as many believers in evolution will say it means 'Survival of the fittest' there is a trickle down to dumbness in all adherents.

    10. Elevates infallibity to a virtue

    I think this one needs to get fleshed out. I mean, pretty much any technocrat aims for infallibility in their prototypes, likewise any researcher. They might or might not be more likely to realize that it is a goal that cannot be reached, but hardly as something that wouldn't be a virtue.
     
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  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Not entirely.
    It crossed my mind MR was being cute and probably suggesting that folk readily accept religion and yet reject UFOs that have more reports..credible or otherwise.
    I dont know his motivation but I like his points as I confine his points to the post.
    However I would probably support anything that kicks sand in the face of religion.
    It may come as a surprise but I dont really like religion...I try to keep it to myself but I think they are wrong to attempt to present God as real one the one hand but what teally gets to ne is that if there is a God that they have the hide to suggest they have a clear message via scriptures some 2000 years old...furthet given the size of the universe why they pretend they are special is unrealistic.
    Then there is their arrogance as clearly they look down upon athiests.
    Their approach seems to be I am ok Jack stuff the rest of you and I do admit I have only imptessions based on a very gew encounters with them.
    They seem evasive...you say there can be no God they ask you to prove it when the burden is with them..
    That is wrong in my view.
    As to MR if he is playing games I suggest the one you may not see is the op may be his way of getting more coverage for UFOs, certainly the responce could be said to be predictable and so if that is his game all but me are playing his game.
    Alex
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I wont comment or argue against your propositions as to do so would take away from the compliment I now offer...

    Great to have you provide reasonable input and address the isdues rsised in the OP.
    Well done you have my respect.
    Alex
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    Mod Note

    Troll flame bait thread.

    Really, this is childish bullshit and the intent is only to flame others into responding. And you people were stupid enough to fall for it.

    Thread closed.
     
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