telepathy,teleportation, invisabilty

heh

the proof for my claim lies with patience Q, and id be glad to wait. If nothing like i said happens by the end of 2012, then i'll admit i had nothing more than a dream, and you of course get to say that you were right. If i am right, however, then i get bragging rights.
Your collecting of the million dollars should make headlines
Believe me, although id love to take up the challenge, my ethics stop me from doing something like this. Even if i were to donate all of it to charity, it is still wrong to use psychic abilities to get money like this. Believe me its tempting, but it doesnt make it right. Even if i would take the challenge, i probably wouldnt be able to prove it. I cant alter the weather on command, i cannot read someones mind accurately enough (yet) i cannot be sure that my short term precognative abilities will be able to work on cue. I will, however, post when i would bbe able to complete the test, and will post a poll asking if i should actually go ahead and do it. I respect ya Q. Lets see if you have the virtue of patience...
In the meantime, id be glad to debate other topics

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manofjade

If nothing like i said happens by the end of 2012, then i'll admit i had nothing more than a dream

You're missing the point. A claim in the form of a generalized guess can take on many forms. One could easily interpret the claim to have a variety of meanings. In that way, the claim is no longer valid simply because one could then choose any one of a number of events resembling the original claim and designate that event to the claim in an attempt to justify the claims validity.

The claim must be reasonably specific in order to hold validity. Anything else is just guesswork.

Believe me, although id love to take up the challenge, my ethics stop me from doing something like this. Even if i were to donate all of it to charity, it is still wrong to use psychic abilities to get money like this.

I most certainly do not agree with that. Any professed person who claims to exhibit psychic abilities should not hesitate to accept this challenge. There is nothing morally or ethically wrong in participating whatsoever. Besides, this organization wants to give the money away.

To give the monies to charity IS the ethical thing to do. Think about it.

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Why do you want MY defenition of god?

If YOU believe in God, explain your defenition...
Or compare it to the defenition globally used by mass religions...

 

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Q
The website you provided is bullshit. The reason no one has passed the priliminary test is because it's impossible. JREF determines both positive and negative results, so they are choosing what is and is not psychic abilities. If they are choosing the true from the false and giving out the prize money, then anyone can tell it is a fake test. But wait, there's more: the participant has to pay for the test, the cost of using the epipment, and anything else that arises. And, when you fail to pass said bullshit test, they make you write that you didn't. So who with psychic powers is going to want to take this test after reading the rule? The initial reward may look good, but when you think about it, it's really not worth it.

Anyway, all those tests say isn't that they haven't <I>found</I> someone out there who is psychic, not that they don't exist.

For obvious reasons listed above your "evidence" is proven false and we (the affirmative) win.

 

Happy

they are choosing what is and is not psychic abilities.

Not true. The participants must first agree with all criteria.

If they are choosing the true from the false and giving out the prize money, then anyone can tell it is a fake test.

How can it be a fake test. That makes no sense. If a participant makes a claim of their particular "power," a simple informal test is administered which allows the participant to become a "claimant." The participant must agree to the criteria of the test. They always agree and they always fail these preliminary tests.

the participant has to pay for the test, the cost of using the epipment, and anything else that arises.

That is the formal testing and not the preliminary testing. Of course, no one has advanced to formal testing therefore no monies changes hands.

when you fail to pass said bullshit test, they make you write that you didn't.

Ridiculous statement. What do they do - hold a gun to your head ?

So who with psychic powers is going to want to take this test after reading the rule?

Again, I repeat, the participant MUST agree to all test criteria before proceeding.

Anyway, all those tests say isn't that they haven't found someone out there who is psychic, not that they don't exist.

So what are you and your psychic friends waiting for - go and make believers of us all. It only takes one person - anyone - anywhere - anytime. Only one.

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For obvious reasons listed above your "evidence" is proven false and we (the affirmative) win.

hehe - Obvious reasons ? Hardly.

 

Q

<i>Not true. The participants must first agree with all criteria. </i>
And if they don't agree, they don't take the test. You've done nothing but support my point. No real psychic is going to want to take the test after they read the rules, so they don't agree and the test is therefore flawed. They only test people who say they have psychic powers, agree to the rules and fork over the money to take the test.

<i>They always agree and they always fail these preliminary tests.</I>
How can you say they always agree? DO you have proof of that? Does something on the site say that when presented with the contract the testee always said yes? No, and even then, not everyone with psychic powers goes to the organization. Most of us have things to do, and don't have $10,000(US) to blow on a test to see if we are or are not psychic.

<I>Ridiculous statement. What do they do - hold a gun to your head ?</i>
When you agree to the the criteria, you agree to write that you are not psychic when you fail. If you violate this, you violate a contract and they can sue. Violating a contract is illegal, Q.

<i>So what are you and your psychic friends waiting for - go and make believers of us all. It only takes one person - anyone - anywhere - anytime. Only one.</i>
It's going to take more than one person, because if it didn't, everyone would understand that psychic powers exist. It takes thousand of cercumstances to prove something scientifically. Moreover, I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't take part in any scientific expirement for fear of becoming a government's lab rat, and having the media crawling all over my ass.

Have you any other proof? Any valid, useable proof? Something scientific that says there is no such thing as psychic powers?

 

ethics...

Q,
There is nothing ethically or morally wrong with this test whatsoever
This brings us to a classic issue; ethics. My ethics go against this, while you may not think anything is wrong, i may not agree. I follow respect and honor, this is partially why. Part of my personal code of honor is not going around making a challenge. However, if a challenge was made to me, i would have to accept rather than walk away. Issuing a challenge to somebody for personal gain isn't (by me anyway) considered rather "honorable". I ask the people here at sciforums who read this post, say here if you think this would be ethical or not

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Happy

so they don't agree and the test is therefore flawed.

Circular reasoning.

When you agree to the the criteria, you agree to write that you are not psychic when you fail.

If one were really a psychic then one would not fail, would they ?

Most of us have things to do, and don't have $10,000(US) to blow on a test to see if we are or are not psychic.

But if you claim to be psychic, then you must be a psychic, right ?

It's going to take more than one person, because if it didn't, everyone would understand that psychic powers exist.

Nope. One person only.

Have you any other proof? Any valid, useable proof? Something scientific that says there is no such thing as psychic powers?

Again, prove the negative - shift the burden of proof fallacy. This will not work on this forum. You will soon be ignored if you continue this line of reasoning.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - get used to it.

 

It is the negatives job to give proof, because without proof there is no debate. It is uneducation and anything that is not education and therefore brings no improvement to the individual is useless. While we wait for your proof, I'll give you some supporting us:

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/gdpmanu/psychic/psyc-1.htm
You seem to need some information on the basics of psychic power, so this site will be a big help. It's not finished yet, but it will suffice for now.

http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/articles/2002/9/2/218.html
Their still researching, but they've got some nice sounding proof.

http://www.angelfire.com/rock/theunexplained/psychic.htm
This one's from the guy who proved psychic powers do exist. The introductions a bit iffy, but if you explore the site they make some nice points.

http://www.mindful.org/mind/ap-scepticism1.html
Maybe we should stop debating this one with you. We've offered valid points for all of your points, and you keep hopping around the important stuff as if it is fire.

I'd love to give you some book support, but I'm only trying to open your mind to the possibility of psychic powers, so I'm not going to put too much effort into this one. I can get more if you can find valid ways to refute all this.

 

manofjade

In other words, if you knew you could win the million dollars and give it away to help needy, perhaps homeless, starving children, that would be unethical ? That would bother you ?

Sorry, I find that very hard to swallow. IF it were me, I would jump at the chance to not only show that psychic powers existed, but to give away the million dollars to charity.

 

Happy

It is the negatives job to give proof

Totally wrong. You don't appear to know the first thing about claims and their arguments.

Note: Give me some time to go through your links.

 

It is unethical because it abuses the system. The system is in itself flawed, because there might have been outside forces influencing the outcome of the test beforehand. So to honestly disprove psychic powers you would need to take someone (with an open mind) who can not use his/her psychic powers currently, let that person attempt to develope them under controlled circumstances, and then test him/her. Anything else is not a true test.

Oh, and I forgot a link: http://www.geocities.com/andybalik/myth9.html
There you go, Q. Enjoy, and read the page before you refute it.

 

Exactly!

I would of course give it to charity, but do the ends justify the means? While its not something seeming so big here, the means are unethical to me. If i was asked to do this, either by enough people here, or by the skeptics organization themselves, i would certainly try to try it. (Transportation to austrailia is hard when you are 15

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Actually I do. We make a claim, you say it's wrong and disprove us with evidence, then we prove ourselves with evidence and so on and so forth until someone's evidence becomes exhausted and there is a victor. You offered your evidence(however weak), now check out ours.

 

Happy

And while I digest the information from the links you provided, I ask that you read the information on the following link - you should learn about the fallacies which you continually use in your arguments:

http://gncurtis.home.texas.net/index.html

 

I'm going to choose to ignore that. All debates have different rules. That link is bullshit anyway.

 

Happy

Actually I do. We make a claim, you say it's wrong and disprove us with evidence, then we prove ourselves with evidence and so on and so forth until someone's evidence becomes exhausted and there is a victor.

All debates have different rules. That link is bullshit anyway.

QED

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Still waiting...

Well we supplied some evidence, supply us some evidence of your own. (and not a website on how to not make a mistake while argueing)

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Psy

Or compare it to the defenition globally used by mass religions..

That's the problem - there are countless definitions of gods - whose definition is correct ?

That's why I asked for your definition.

 

manofjade

Read this:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html