Teenage 'virginity pledges' are ineffective

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Syzygys, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    And that's why I stopped it.

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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There's some fault left over for the people who spread garbage like that around, apparently without a second thought about its plausibility.

    Does it even sound reasonable ? Surely you must have some awareness of the prevalence of, say, miscarriage - even several of which do not leave a woman "normally" unable to conceive.
    Depends on how it's done. Are you referring to these weirdo pledge ceremonies as "natural"?
    Sometimes, it is. Inability to orgasm is far more common among women than is commonly recognized, and along with other dysfunctions and perversions appears to be culturally mediated to a degree.

    If done "incorrectly", with parental coercion and lack of information, what problems do you have with them? Do you recommend screening, by someone with oversight powers?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2009
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    This woman was around 50 years old.
     
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  7. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    then the hormones probably put her into menapause, just like temoxifin did for my mother

    Or as i said it could have been that they were ectopic pregancies which have to be surgically removed. 2 of them WILL leave a women infertile because the ONLY treatment is to remove the felopian tubes and they dont grow back and of course there are only 2 of them. Of course the alternitive is death so *shrug*
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    of course what the doctor MIGHT have said was "your 50, there for your about to go into menapuse. If you abort there is probably zero chance that you will have time to concive again before your body stops producing eggs anyway" and there was a communication break down between what the doctor said and what you posted.

    Or you could be making this up to make yourself SOUND good and have been caught out peddling bullshit and are now trying to cover your own ass but you would never do that right?

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  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    is that what you do?

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    she was 50 year old when she told me. i am done. figure it out.
     
  10. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    yep.
    I have no problem with a virginity pledge, or a promise/purity ring, etc. The dance is kinda creepy. I would want my kids pledging it to themselves not us.
     
  11. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Last I heard, abstinence was also being taught in school as a way to not get pregnant or get diseases. Your school of teaching is, do it when you want, with who you want, how you want, where you want, but use a condom. Correct?

    and really, you are the last person who should be throwing around the word 'moron'.
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    22,217
    Hence the issue. Why don't these kids pledge it to themselves? Why pledge it to Dad in a dance?

    The main problem with teaching abstinence is that it is, more often than not, the only thing taught in schools. So children are only taught about abstinence and nothing else. They aren't taught about safe sex or contraception. They aren't taught that other sexual activity such as anal or oral sex is indeed sex and thus, protection should always be used. Sex in and of itself isn't defined for these children and to them, oral and anal sex isn't sex because they're still virgins. Have a brief look at STD rates amongst teenagers and then do a quick search on safe sex and abstinence or virginity pledges. Research has found that those who take the pledge and are taught only abstinence are less likely to use any form of protection and are just as, if not more, likely to engage in risky sexual activity than those who do not take the pledge.. Abstinence only programs are a dismal failure and the soaring rates of STD's amongst teens is proof that it simply is not working. The whole notion that it will cut the rate of STD's amongst teenagers is bunk.

    This is a study from 2005. The figures were bad then. A recent CDC report found that 1 in 4 teenagers had one or more STD's.

    Where I went to school, we were taught abstinence was the best means of protecting ourselves against pregnancy and STD's. But we were also taught about safe sex and sex in general.. ie. that anal and oral sex is sex. Those who take the pledge and are taught only abstinence as their sex education instead of a broader range that would normally encompass sex education are more likely to engage in anal or oral sex, thinking it isn't sex.

    Yep, I guess pledging works if you want to cull the population, I guess..

    It really is quite terrifying to be honest.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Pronatalist, I'll get back to you later today or tomorrow. Taking the children to the beach today and I need to be able to sit down to respond to your post and address some of the points you have made and for that, I am going to need time. Lots of time.. So I will get back to your post very soon.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    So, what is the problem?

    And this is nothing personal against you, John, but what the hell is your problem?

    For instance, you recently asserted some confusion, and I advised that I needed more information about what confused you before I could understand (and, by implication, address) your question.

    I do not see that you have responded to that. Yet here you are with another question. And the answer is simple: With a web browser.

    Was that not the answer you sought? Well, then, what is the problem?

    Seriously, I can't do anything to address the problem if you won't tell us what it is.

    Is there a reason you're willing to make the effort state your confusion about certain issues, but don't seem to want those points actually resolved?
     
  14. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    and thankfully that isn't my children's school. Sex ed starts in 2nd grade. They are taught good and bad touches. 4th grade the girls learned about their period and boys learned about 'wet dreams'. In 5th grade boys learn about periods and the girls learn about 'wet dreams'.
    Parents can sign a form requesting their children skip out of these classes. For some reason, parents think if their kids learn about homosexuality, it will make them gay.

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  15. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    One, I won't assume to speak for everyone, but it's not all about being different. It's about expressing who you are. It is also sometimes about expressing your allegiance to a certain subculture, and I fail to see how that is a bad thing so long as you do it because you want to and not because you're under pressure from your group or to outdo every other raging potential alpha you hang out with.

    Two, good for you, that's your personal opinion.

    Three, you have the right to your opinion as to what is aesthetic, but not to decide what is wrong or right for other people. They could just as easily call you ugly or classless.

    What is wrong with a socialist society?

    I fail to see how we are pawns or cogs in anything. Hands up who thinks they're a pawn or cog.

    I will die if I don't eat or breathe. I won't die if I don't give birth to something. I don't even know yet if I want to. I'm not a very nurturing person.

    If people want to have unlimited families good luck to them. If some people want just 2 children or none at all that's also their right.

    God again. Stop basing every idea and mental structure of yours on God and think for yourself. You don't know God exists. You were told God exists. You feel him deep down inside and know he's there? That's actually your intestines contracting...

    Calling contraceptives poisons is not an argument.

    Why not welcome them? Hmm. I haven't asked anyone else, so I'll just give you my reasons. I can't afford to feed one. I'm not emotionally mature enough to look after one. I have other stuff I would rather be doing with my life.

    Now you want to hold us down and impregnate us against your will? Lovely. Very Christian altogether.

    If everyone had unlimited families, there would be overcrowding and less resources to go around, as happened in China. You think that is positive, I think you should re-evaluate your idea of positive.

    Condoms dull your sensations? Use the ones with ridges inside, it's what they are there for.

    Again, your agreeing with something is not an argument in itself.

    You say 'excuses' as if people owe it to everyone else to have children, and should provide a very good reason if they don't wish to. Newsflash: they don't. Like I said, your body is your own.

    Speak for yourself, my nature doesn't. My "nature" likes sex, certainly. However I balk at the idea of having a kid aged 18, both consciously and inveterately.

    You suggest a solution, then. You find a way to feed all those people.

    Star Trek is not reality. There's no indication such machines will be built.

    Foreseeable, maybe. What happens when you have 5 people per square metre? Where do you go then? Start building houses in the sea?

    Again with your use of the word 'excuses'.

    More home schooling? Dude, are you ok? The majority of the time home schooling is a disaster. I was home schooled and I'm now studying natural sciences, but I'm a rare one and I don't mean that arrogantly, I succeeded in life because my mother actually knew what she was doing. Most kids who home school end up illiterate and doing crappy jobs, or in places like Youthreach where they're supposed to be learning vocational skills, but in fact the only thing they learn is how to act like a pack of rabid dogs and how much cannabis you can safely smoke without suffering a 'whitey' and embarrassing yourself. You want that? You want those kids fucking up your lovely utopian society?

    What exactly is this theory? We take too much from the earth, so the earth gets overpopulated? Even if it is a legitimate one, what about the shit loads of energy we'll need for our everyday lives? How are you going to generate electricity for these hordes you're insisting we should all give birth to? Oh, and what happens when we hunt species to extinction? You can't feed off the environment forever.
     
  16. distantcube Registered Member

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    I made no comment whatsoever as to whether I considered virginity pledge ceremonies natural or unnatural. So I must ask, what are you on about?

    And I have been told that it is often far easier for a woman to orgasm when she masturbates. That's just anecdotal of course, but since you don't have anything better, I don't feel compelled to go hunting for statistical info.

    Again, what are you on about? Are you trying to say that virginity pledge cermonies make it harder for a woman to orgasm? :bugeye:

    I've already described what problems I have with them: There is parental coercion and a lack of information. Preferably, oaths should be entered into by an informed party who is not forced by the other party into said agreement.

    The question I would ask you is: If there is an absence of parental coercion, and both parties are fully informed, what problems do you have with virginity pledges?
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In that theoretical and unobserved state of affairs, probably none.
    Agreed. So?
    They arise from cultural environments that seem to produce more than their share of dysfunctions and perversions - including difficulty or inability to orgasm by any method. Some of these virginity pledges include prohibition of masturbation, btw (perhaps along the same reasoning as the Catholic Church's famous chastity vow for priests).
    You said this:
    in a thread devoted to discussing virginity pledges. Are any of these "progressives" visible here ? Do you think anyone here finds these pledges reprehensible because they are an attempt to control sexual urges?
     
  18. madanthonywayne Morning in America Staff Member

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    How is it not plausible that multiple surgeries involving a woman's reproductive organs could damage her ability to conceive? Surgery has side effects. In the eye there's something called the $6,000 rule. It states that the eye can endure about 6 grand worth of surgery before it shrivels up and the patient goes blind. There's absolutely nothing unreasonable about such concerns regarding multiple abortions. Just look at Michael Jackson's face if you want to see what too much surgery gets you.
     
  19. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Mad, i suggest you look at the supposed pt's age. You have knowledge of A&P, you tell me, what is the age that women go through menopause?
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    It is a factual account, age was not factor. I forgot about new procedure of taking a pill, an honest mistake and that is where the confusion came from.
     
  21. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    How would multiple abortions be any different than multiple child births? Would birthing a child be harder on the body than a legal abortion?
     
  22. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    This is one of my favourite lines of argument ever.

    You know what else is not "natural" for humans??? Flying. And swimming hundreds of meters below the water. Or parachuting. Or watching television. Or using a computer. Or using elevators. Or driving a car.

    So I hope you consider all of these things to be an offense against god as well.
     
  23. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    I guess you're not doing a very good job.
     

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