Technology vs Magic (A Challange)

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by orthogonal, Jun 14, 2002.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,251
    <i>I know a reliable psychic who says...</i>

    Isn't "reliable psychic" an oxymoron?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Back later. Will think about the original question.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    So is Military Intelligence. That does not prevent anybody to spend the billions of your tax dollars!....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,113
    "Technology vs. magic"

    Why choose?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Conor Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    i would like to add something to the discussion.

    With the materials availible in the time period as i understand them i would be able to build a basic gear driven calculator capible of +,-,*,/ and could refine it as i go. of corse the basic problem with any of the other ideas is the math, you may be able to build a hang glider, but to make it work, and to show them how it works you have to introduce them to some of the basic laws of physics and mathimatics. In this time period in europe an educated man can add and subtract. true scholars in greece and rome would have some geometry and algerbra. so you would have to develope the math first and then the physics second. chemistry would be a whole other story. you would have to id chemicals other ways. things like iron and lead would be easy, but what about salt peter, a basic ingredent for gun powder. you would have to find and id it before the gun you have made would be any good.

    to bring high technology to the medieval times, the best bet would bet the steam engine, leading up to the internal combustion engine. for the steam engine you will need a way to refine the metal for the parts. i would recommend thermite. find and melt aluminum to purify it. find or make rust. making rust can be accomplished by mixing salt and water in a clay or glass bowl, adding an electric power source connected to iron. the power source could be made with copper and a strong acid, sulfuric is what is used in acitone car batteries though finding it in those times may be harder, you might try hydrocloric acid which can be collected in the human stomach and boiled to purity in a glass container. one could also generate electricity using natural forming magnets and a few moving parts to create a spinning magnetic field wich is what a generator does. after you have your power source you apply it to your water with the positive connected to the iron, the positive is the one wich will bubble more. leave it overnight or longer depending on the strength of your power. scrape the rust off the bottom, do this for a few nights leaving the shavings in the container, then boil and sun dry the rust, grind it into a fine powder, place it in a pot and heat until red, add in your aluminum and you will soon have thermite. use magniesium to light it. seperate the to metals that form as it burns(through just about every thing), they will be slag and pure iron, the pure iron can then be used to make good parts for a steam engine.

    the steam engine is nothing more than a pressure boiler, a heat source, a place for steam to leave, and condence water to enter, and usualy a turbine or something to do work. the internal combustion engine would be harder, but could be produced. it could be made to run off of a strong alchohol, which they had.

    there are many more things i could list that could be done in such a time with the material availible. but it would take too long and i don't know what formatt you would want full replies.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2002
  8. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    Easier said than done. Monatomic aluminum is vary rare- I don't think they have any aluminum deposits in Europe. Most of it is tied up in bauxite.
     
  9. Conor Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    then perhaps a more, well in this case less difficult proccess would be to melt down and boil the iorn, either way will produce pure iron.
     
  10. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Getting a fire up to 1000-1500 degrees is no easy feat. You can not get it with wood. It requires charcoal and billows. If you get the fire to hot by using the billows, you stand a chance of the iron becoming an oxide with the excess air, which would ruin the iron.
     
  11. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,113
    Nobody has answered my qustion yet,
     
  12. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Because I can't do magic. That leaves no choice.
     
  13. Conor Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    i would choose magic, ecept that in that time period, magic wasn't widely accepted and technology if explained would keep you from getting burned at the steak as i understand the rules of the question.
     
  14. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,113
    The computer didn't copy the question properly. The real one is:

    "Technology vs Magic"
    Why choose?
     
  15. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,467
    The dynamo. I am sure I could at least IMPRESS them with little electrical discharges....

    The steam engine....

    Some form of medicine. NO LEECHES...

    The bug bomb....


    So many things would work great.
     
  16. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    Why indeed....but on the otherhand magic has that "deception" built in to it, that may come handy against people who are telepathic and have pure thought....
     
  17. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,113
    I was drifting into fantasy. The point I was getting at is that, given the right physics, you can integrate magic and technology. Primitive examples are magic swords and other such weapons. Let's cross Harry Potter and Star Trek.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Any thoughts?
     
  18. kmguru Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,757
    The common meaning of magic is "deception", but if we use science to actually do it - then it is a whole different issue. Some stuff can be done, while others are problematic such as making statue of liberty disappear...

    If we want to really do that, then we may borrow a technology from StarTrek and beam it up somewhere, we could put a temporal bubble around it, we could manipulate light around it and so on. The point is, one could physically remove the object from a specific space-time reference or make it appear so. Since there may be many methods to make it look like magic - one should be careful to disect the science/technology behind such effects.

    Ultimately all things are possible if we are a part of a simulation in the great cosmic computer....
     
  19. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,113
    Yes, the mice are watching...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I refer to magic as a supernatural non-psychic mechanism to manipulate the real world. Belgarath. Gandalf. Fizban.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Harry Potter.
     
  20. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,467
    Real magic is just science you can not yet comprehend. What you were calling magic is slight-of-hand.
     
  21. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,113
    I was not refering to slieght of hand.
     
  22. spookz Banned Banned

    Messages:
    6,390
    the question on a slightly different line....

    can we sciforumers rebuild society from scratch? what are our talents and areas of expertise? can we get shit up and running?

    (there was a stephen king novel that went along these lines too. however his world already had modern infrastructure in place and just needed people to operate and maintain them)



    anyway i am afraid i have zero skils

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Technology in the Middle Ages

    timeline

    Medieval Science

    google
     
  23. Conor Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    Magic vs Technology

    there is a big difference between magic, science, sliet of hand, and illusion. illusion is based on plinciples of misdirection like sliet of hand, but on a muck grander scale. it also blends in aspecks of science particulary physics. science itself is just physics with math to proove it. you can manipulate energy with science, but it is limited. magic is the use of your inner energy or the energy of the world and/or cosmos, to manipulate reality in an almost limitless manner. magic is only really limited to the users imagination and faith.
     

Share This Page