Support for ISIS in Muslim World is 7%

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Plazma Inferno!, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. Plazma Inferno! Ding Ding Ding Ding Administrator

    Messages:
    4,609
    I found these interesting results that show perceptions and reality regarding support for so called Islamic State. All surveys were conducted prior to the recent attacks in Paris and Mali.
    With exception of Syria, percentage of support is really low, as shown on the image.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    The overall number of support is about 7%. It may look low until we take a population of those countries into account. Then, it becomes scary, because that low percentage suddenly turns into hundreds of millions of supporters.

    Source: http://metrocosm.com/support-isis-muslim-world-perceptions-vs-reality/
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. chuuush Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,229
    The overwhelming majority of the people killed by isis are muslims. The overwhelming majority of the people fighting isis are muslims. Islam is not the problem, isis is the problem and isis is nothing more and nothing less that a criminal orginization bent on aquiring power.
     
    Billy T likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    While [mostly] true, what does any of that have to do with the OP?
     
  8. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,229
    It was actually directed at chuuush as opposed to the OP.
     
  9. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    The link is here

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/


    It is interesting. But I'm skeptical.

    How did Pew conduct accurate polling in Syria and Libya, failed states dominated by radical militias and by civil war? How did they conduct polling in the ISIS occupied portions of Iraq? I strongly doubt that it was face-to-face polling, since outsiders asking sensitive questions in those places would likely wind up dying very unpleasant deaths. I went to Pew's 'methodology' page and found that there was no information for how the polls were conducted in these countries. In the case of Pakistan, it appears that they didn't conduct in-person polls in most of the country, for 'security' reasons. But it's the more radical areas, such as the tribal areas of the Northwest Frontier where the Taliban shelter, where one would expect support for ISIS to be highest.

    http://www.pewglobal.org/international-survey-methodology/?year_select=2015

    Apparently Pew polled the entire population of these countries and didn't restrict themselves to Muslims. In some cases, that will influence the results. For example, Malaysia is only about 60% Muslim. If 11% of Malaysians support ISIS (one out of nine, which is already high), that suggests that maybe 20% of Malaysian Muslims do (one out of five). Similar remarks can be made about Nigeria, which is only about half Muslim.

    Another consideration is that those who don't express support for ISIS aren't necessarily its opponents. There's a 'don't know' category who represent significant percentages in some countries. In countries where expressing support for ISIS can get one labeled a terrorist, many supporters might opt for expressing no opinion.

    And finally, support for ISIS isn't the only way that Muslims can be totally out of tune with Western modernity. Earlier Pew polls have found large majorities of Muslims in some countries support imposition of Shariah law, stoning of adulterers and the death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for another religion or for atheism.

    60% of Malaysian Muslims support death by stoning for adulterers and 62% support the death penalty for those who leave Islam. 89% of Pakistanis support death for adulterers and 76% support death for those who leave Islam. 81% of Egyptians support death for adultery and 86% support death for leaving Islam. Even in relatively moderate Tunisia, the 'Arab Spring's' only (qualified) success, 44% support death for adulterers and 29% support death for those who leave Islam.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...r_201309&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/
     
  10. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Ok, I don't see a connection there either, so same question.
     
  11. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,229
    Plazma Inferno! pointed out that polls show that only a small minority of the muslim world thinks isis is swell. Chuuush stated that he didn't trust polls. I was supplying another way to point out that isis is not generally supported by muslims.
     
  12. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Ok, I just don't see that anyone claimed ISIS was supported by a majority of Muslims, so it still seems like a counter-argument against a claim that wasn't made.

    For my part, I'll say that even 1% is a huge number of people and a really big problem - I disagree with the OP that that is "low". From the other direction, I'd say that such polls don't really matter much, it's the results - the terrorism itself - that is the direct/demonstrated problem.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,364
    I'm not too worried. It's very easy to get 1% of people to support anything. After 9/11 I am sure you would have gotten more than 1% support in the US for dropping nuclear weapons on Pakistan. It's easy to say "yes" in a poll when you have nothing to risk.
     
    sideshowbob likes this.
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,917
    Would it be fair to speculate that most Muslims around the world would support the cause ( establish a caliphate ) but not the methods ?
     
  15. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    If it's true, as the OP suggests, that the overall level of support for ISIS in the Islamic world is 7% (not 1%), and if there are a billion Muslims out there, then that's 70 million ISIS supporters. Put another way, it's roughly one in every 14 Muslims. So if the "migrants" currently trying to crash into Europe do support ISIS at that 7% composite rate for the Muslim world as a whole, and if Angela Merkel proposes to invite more than a million of them into Europe, then one can expect that group to contain 70,000 ISIS supporters. If the "migrants" really are the Syrians that the news media portray them as being, and if they support ISIS at the 21% rate given in the OP for Syria (how did Pew arrive at that number?), then that would be one out of every five incoming migrants and 210,000 ISIS supporters. That suggests that Europe (and Western civilization) might be preparing to commit suicide by good-intentions.

    In my opinion it's actually a lot worse than that. The problem isn't just existing ISIS supporters, it's jihadist radicalization within existing Muslim communities.

    If majorities of Muslims in some Islamic world counties support stoning adulterers and killing individuals who leave Islam, then I think that we can expect majorities of migrants from those countries to favor other practices that are inconsistent with Western civilization as well, like killing blasphemers (one would expect Shariah compliant Muslims to embrace or reject Islamic laws as a group, in their entirety). We've already seen the results of adherence to Islamic law concerning the proper response to blasphemy in the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris and elsewhere around the world.

    People with cultural views like those prevalent in much of the Muslim world aren't likely to assimilate into Western culture very easily. Expecting them to do so would mean expecting them to abandon their highly legalistic 7th century form of religion, which isn't likely to happen. What Europe will see instead is the formation of more and more culturally alien ghettos and enclaves in their midst, where anger and alienation fester and out of which young radicalized militants strike at the culturally intolerable civilization surrounding them. We are already seeing that happen in France and Belgium, and it's only likely to get more widespread and much worse.

    Individual countries or the EU collectively might try to vet the migrants at the border in hopes of identifying the ISIS supporters and the fundamentalist adherents of Shariah who are most likely to become radicalized once admitted, removing them from the more secular modernists (and some Sufi mystics) who are likely to fit more comfortably into European civilization. But how could that possibly be done? There aren't any records on most of these people in their countries of origin. Nobody knows what their religious sympathies were back home or how many of the fit young men in their midst have military training and past radical associations. Women will learn soon enough to remove their hijabs and men to shave their beards, and everyone will say the right things to the interviewers, in order to gain entrance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,364
    I posted this yesterday, and then I find:

    =============
    Cruz pledges relentless bombing to destroy ISIL
    By Katie Glueck
    12/05/15

    Ted Cruz on Saturday promised a ruthless campaign against terrorists in the Middle East, promising to find out “if sand can glow in the dark.”

    “We will utterly destroy ISIS,” he said of the terrorist group also called ISIL. “We will carpet-bomb them into oblivion. I don’t know if sand can glow in the dark, but we’re going to find out!”


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/cruz-isil-bombing-216454#ixzz3tqMo2cSH
    ============

    So - yeah.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,364
    Gallup poll 8/2/11:

    Is it OK for small groups to target and kill civilians?

    Muslims: Never 89% Sometimes 11% Depends 0%
    Catholics: Never 71% Sometimes 27% Depends 2%
    Protestants: Never 71% Sometimes 26% Depends 2%

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/148763/Muslim-Americans-No-Justification-Violence.aspx
     
    sideshowbob likes this.
  18. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Yeah, what? I don't see any relationship there. Please be more specific about what you think the relationship is.
     
  19. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    Of course, killing blasphemers, adulterers and apostates wouldn't be conceived by Islamic fundamentalists as an action by a small group. And jihad against the unbelievers wouldn't be conceived by Jihadists as action by a small group either. Those who actually perform the deeds may be a small group (daughters who have premarital sex have traditionally been killed by their fathers and brothers), but the killers and violent jihadists are believed by those who support such things to be acting on behalf of the whole Islamic 'Ummah' in accordance with God's revealed Law.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,364
    Right. And the ten million or so pro-life people in the US who think that terrorism is justified to stop abortion often use the Bible to justify their beliefs, as well.
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,364
    Given that a US Senator and Presidential candidate is openly advocating for using nuclear weapons in the Middle East, it is likely that at least 1% of Americans would support such an attack.
     
  22. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,750
    If we re-spin Pew's 'don't know' as 'undecided' or 'willing to consider it', and then add it to the percentage of unambiguous ISIS supporters, we get:

    Lebanon 1% combined (Lebanon has tremendous sectarian divisions but generally speaking is quite modernist. Its Christian, Druze and Shi'ite percentages are large as well, and these are all unbelievers and/or heretical groups in the eyes of ISIS.)
    Jordan 7% (Jordanians are still angry about their captured pilot being burned alive.)
    Indonesia 22%
    Turkey 27% (More than a quarter, that number is disturbingly high. Turkey has been moving away from its traditional post-WWI secularism towards Islamism in recent years.)
    Malaysia 36%
    Pakistan 71% (!)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  23. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    I think you over-interpreted that: it was, at worst, a bad joke.
     

Share This Page