Supplying the Syrian rebels with arms won't work

Discussion in 'World Events' started by cosmictraveler, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, there isn’t one word, there are many words. Did you not read the words I pulled out of my reference in order to draw attention to them? I’ll do it again for your edification, ““Retired Chief of Naval Operations Admiral James L. Holloway III led the official investigation in 1980 into the causes of the operation's failure on behalf of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The Holloway Report primarily cited deficiencies in mission planning, command and control, and inter-service operability, and provided a catalyst to reorganize the Department of Defense, and the Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986.[14]”.

    Failure in mission planning is a failure to communicate. Command and control failure, is also a failure to communicate. Inter-service operability is also a failure which highlights my point. When you take troops who have not worked and trained together and throw them into a military operation, you are asking for trouble.
     
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  3. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Whereas by taking action they could have prevented a good deal of suffering and almost certainly ended the problem sooner. They were unable or unwilling - and let's be honest, certainly the latter - to take action. The local commander either didn't exercise his own judgement in the field, or was ordered to hold place.

    The extent of collaboration in the field would have been minimal at best. Turkish troops are readily identifiable; the Kurds held what ground there was to be held. Simple. Assistance was never offered. Done.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    I never said they were not.

    The FSA have shown a lot more courage than the Turkish armed forces who sat in their tanks watching Kobane be attacked by ISIS right on their border.

    Killing Kurdish civilians? Sure, Turkish forces are terrific at that and they killed over a dozen who protested Turkey's inaction while Kurds died within sight of the defense forces on the border. I guess they find killing unarmed civilian protesters to be a better use of their resources than killing ISIS attackers.

    If you are going to argue that modern warfare is now about sitting in tanks and watching an impending massacre, then I am sure the thousands of Kurdish fighters and the hundreds of FSA who reclaimed Kobane might disagree with you.

    Well gee!

    How fanfuckingtastic of an amazing war effort on Turkey's part...

    No, really, how absolutely amazing that they finally allowed Kurdish fighters and FSA ground troops to land in their airport and go through their border crossing at Kobane.. After how many weeks and weeks of denying even food and water supplies from reaching the Kurdish fighters in Kobane?

    Heaven forbid they actually.. oooohh.. I don't know, use their well armed defense force to help defend Kobane and their border against ISIS, thereby preventing a siege that lasted for months and cost many many lives.. No. That would be silly. Because their effort in defeating ISIS was to finally allow some Kurdish fighters and some FSA fighters to get to Kobane to help reclaim it and defend Turkey's border from ISIS while Turkey's well armed, well trained defense sat in their tanks watching.

    I need to ask, can your excuses for Turkey get much worse? Because thus far, you are scraping the bottom of that desperate barrel and I am curious if you are going to lower yourself much further?

    I didn't. I said cooperated. Which is what they would have had to do if they had actually chosen to get off their fat arses and help defend Kobane and their border.

    They chose not to.

    How kind of the Kurds to have let them drive their tanks through Kobane to go and retrieve a dead body and the guards guarding said dead body.. Because you know, dead body trumps a whole town and thousands of civilians and civilian fighters, doesn't it?

    Then again, I suppose finally allowing Kurdish and FSA fighters to cross the border to help save Kobane from ISIS was a face saving measure since they had openly allowed so many militants to cross into Syria to go and join ISIS.. Not to mention allowing convoys of ISIS vehicles to drive around Turkey, while shooting at Kurds who were trying to take supplies to those who were trying to hold Kobane.

    A former member of ISIS has revealed the extent to which the cooperation of the Turkish military allows the terrorist group, who now control large parts of Iraq and Syria, to travel through Turkish territory to reinforce fighters battling Kurdish forces.

    A reluctant former communications technician working for Islamic State, now going by the pseudonym ‘Sherko Omer’, who managed to escape the group, told Newsweek that he travelled in a convoy of trucks as part of an ISIS unit from their stronghold in Raqqa, across Turkish border, through Turkey and then back across the border to attack Syrian Kurds in the city of Serekaniye in northern Syria in February.

    “ISIS commanders told us to fear nothing at all because there was full cooperation with the Turks,” said Omer of crossing the border into Turkey, “and they reassured us that nothing will happen, especially when that is how they regularly travel from Raqqa and Aleppo to the Kurdish areas further northeast of Syria because it was impossible to travel through Syria as YPG [National Army of Syrian Kurdistan] controlled most parts of the Kurdish region.”

    Until last month, NATO member Turkey had blocked Kurdish fighters from crossing the border into Syria to aid their Syrian counterparts in defending the border town of Kobane. Speaking to Newsweek, Kurds in Kobane said that people attempting to carry supplies across the border were often shot at.

    YPG spokesman Polat Can went even further, saying that Turkish forces were actively aiding ISIS. “There is more than enough evidence with us now proving that the Turkish army gives ISIS terrorists weapons, ammunitions and allows them to cross the Turkish official border crossings in order for ISIS terrorists to initiate inhumane attacks against the Kurdish people in Rojava [north-eastern Syria].”

    Omer explained that during his time with ISIS, Turkey had been seen as an ally against the Kurds. “ISIS saw the Turkish army as its ally especially when it came to attacking the Kurds in Syria. The Kurds were the common enemy for both ISIS and Turkey. Also, ISIS had to be a Turkish ally because only through Turkey they were able to deploy ISIS fighters to northern parts of the Kurdish cities and towns in Syria.”

    “ISIS and Turkey cooperate together on the ground on the basis that they have a common enemy to destroy, the Kurds,” he added.

    While Newsweek was not able to independently verify Omer’s testimony, anecdotal evidence of Turkish forces turning a blind eye to ISIS activity has been mounting over the past month.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    “I have connected ISIS field captains and commanders from Syria with people in Turkey on innumerable occasions,” said Omer.

    “I rarely heard them speak in Arabic, and that was only when they talked to their own recruiters, otherwise, they mostly spoke in Turkish because the people they talked to were Turkish officials of some sorts because ISIS guys used to be very serious when they talked to them.”

    Omer was then transferred to a battalion travelling to fight Kurdish forces in Serekaniya, north-eastern Syria, and describes travelling through Turkey in a convoy of trucks, staying at safehouses along the way, before crossing back into Syria at the Ceylanpinar border crossing.

    Before crossing the border back into Syria, he says: “My ISIS commander reassured us once again that it was all going to be all right because cooperation had been made with the Turks. He frequently talked on the radio in Turkish.”

    “While we tried to cross the Ceylanpinar border post, the Turkish soldiers' watchtower light spotted us. The commander quickly told us to stay calm, stay in position and not to look at the light. He talked on the radio in Turkish again and we stayed in our positions. Watchtower light then moved about 10 minutes later and the commander ordered us to move because the watchtower light moving away from us was the signal that we could safely cross the border into Serekaniye."

    And there we go..

    You have now chewed through the bottom of that barrel and you are desperately and pathetically scrabbling into the dirt underneath.

    No, really, this is pathetic Joe.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    So you revert back to ad hominem...ok.
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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