Star Wars vs Star Trek

night.
oh, and watch that i send a friend invitation on youtube.
i am called Ryagful,so accept.

 

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Mine is called Darthzala

 

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The Federation in general is not a perfect society. Certain planets are more stable and at peace than others (such as Earth and Vulcan). I said near-utopian as the core member planets are relatively peaceful but not at a state of perfection. The outer planets and colonies are less stable

It is unrealistic to us as we have currently have factors that the Federation doesn't have. In ST, the advent of replicators and cheap sources of energy eliminated poverty and the drive to gain wealth as most neccessary items are now capable of just being quickly produced and distributed. Money has phased out to near extinction and now only covers labor and things that can't be replicated. Greed dwindled due to this new economy and theft became unprofitable and useless. Since money is no longer the driving force of humanity, emphasis is put on the pursuit of knowledge and bettering oneself to satisfy the void that greed presents. War was soon seen as stupid and idiotic during this enlightenment so thus the Federation leans toward a pacifist and utopian nature.

 

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Starfleet is a multi-role organization that acts as the law-enforcement, diplomatic and exploration arm of the Federation similar to the British Navy during the 18th and 19th centuries. Ships are not seen as war machines but as research vessels and diplomatic symbols by carrying scientists and politicians between planets or deep space. Because their primary function is exploration, not war, they are only equipped with enough weaponary needed to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

The officers themselves are trained for maintaining and operating starships. They also act as representatives of the UFP to various alien societies so are trained with basic diplomatic skills for negotiations or carrying out research in deep space to add to the Federation's massive data collections. MACO's of the ENT era were incredible at dealing with threats, but as peace became the norm, they slowly disappeared. Now security officers are only needed to maintain peace and order so were NOT fully dedicated soldiers.

This slow militaristic stagnation has led to problems later on with the introduction of the Borg and the Dominion. The UFP was at peace for so long that it was not capable of dealing with the increasing threat of war around them. Weaponary was soon shown to be useless against the Borg while shield-tech was inadequate as Dominion attacks just passed through shields. Dozens of ships were lost in conflict against these foes until Starfleet decided on becoming more militaristic. Fully dedicated warships were introduced after solutions to earlier weaknesses were addressed. Combat training was stepped up and no longer did the Feds believe in true peace.

As you see, ST has actually tried growing to reflect modern times and tried becoming more realistic during late-TNG and and throughout the DS9 era. Soldiers weren't part of the ST verse until they were absolutely needed. Those who have been shown in the 'modern era' are at first weak, but overtime grew to become a respectable force who resemble the 'earlier' MACOs in universe.

 

any fleet should have more weapons, not only to protect themselves.

The crew of a starship should be made up of both as soldiers and scientist.

they had war with the Cardasians,Tzenkethi and others in the 24th century.
war was never far,they had no excuse.

Soldiers are always needed,no matter if there is peace or not.

 

Wow, look at how the person who argues on the side of SW thinks he can dictate his belief systems on everyone. Okay, lets consider this is of course only opinion, and not even a logical one.

See, ST is about exploring the unknown. Im sure with as much time as they had, they've considered thousands of scenarios, and decided how much fire power a ship should have.

One such scenario:
"We're from Starfleet, UFP, exploring the unknown in the name of peace and... we only have all these weapons because its better to be safe than sorry."

"We are Q. Your Federation is too simple-minded to dream of what lies ahead, much less prepare for it! It's arrogance like this that makes me want to show you what a Borg Cube looks like..."

Yeah George1, lets stick massive weapons and an army aboard a ship and send it out into unknown territory. Anyone who encounters a ship that seems more threatening than peaceful will appear as though they came to conquer or destroy. I think a good rule is to prepare to defend yourself but leave your weapons in your own turf. Don't bring them to somebody else's doorstep unless you've been invited to do so.

 

i did not do that,and i never did.

well yes,and they have been proven they need more dozens of times!

yes you logistical moron,it is better!

you mean a single Borg cube which can outmatch an entire Federation armada?

i did not said put an army on it,i said put soldiers in it,more weapons and
a far more battle ready crew!
you better be prepared for a war even when war is light years away.
if humanity would have been like you say over it's history,we would be extinct.got that?EXTINCT!

 

So we're at the point of calling names, are we?

It's apparent to me that you lack the mental capacity to even debate any of this because you look for conflict and twist the meanings of statements until you can interpret it as such... RATHER than trying to understand the meaning intended.


As for how much weapons they have on board - The Enterprise(s) and Voyager have been through so many situations we've lost count... and you're saying that because they couldn't 'bully' their way out of a situation that they're ill-equipped.

Well thats the warsie mentality I guess. Rather than 'THINK' your way out of a situation, you rather pull a gun out and start killing everything.

I believe you've made your point...

 

before insulting me,look at you'll way of cometary!

NO, i did not said that,learn to understand
what others are writing!

again,you misinterpreted everything i said!

no i didn't, i ain't even started!

 

Talk about lost in translation! lol

They need more weapons and soldiers... not an 'army' by his own definition, and this is just to make sure they're a match for the worst threats... which means any lesser threatening situation would be child's play to bully their way out of.

Ya know, I won't insult you with trying to guess your age, but it seems you don't realize that the object of the game in Star Trek is not to run around and bitch-slap any offenders who are in the way of exploration... the object of the game is to boldly face an equal or greater challenge so you can learn something from it. That's why Trek tech, the sciences and stuff are considered greater because they often adapt and configure things to suit a situation... they dont fly into every mission with all the answers and the firepower to bully their way through.

 

what the hell are you talking about?

how many post did i made saying i was 16??LOTS!
i know all of that, and i never fucking said what you said!!!
i said that an navy needs on board they'll ships both soldiers and scientists,
get a freaking dictionary if you can't understand simple English!

 

It would be very wise to keep an army of professional fighting force of highly skilled professionals intensely trained in the art of war. It is not smart to only keep a fleet of scientists. They should have a exploration corps, AND a fighting force. They should have the exploration corps to explore obviously and fighting force for military affairs. They should also keep an active intelligence service and special operations force. The universe isn't peaches and cream, the galaxy is a dangerous place filled with dangerous people. Starfleet is right to keep a fleet of scientist, but they need a fighting force too. It is pretty much what the Republic thought, they didn't have a adequate fighting force against internal and external threats, but they did have a fighting force, and special operations, which is the Jedi Order, they also had an active intel service. The Starfleet should also provide their officers with adequate training in battlefield mastery and strategic studies. They need to learn to solve problems with battlefield tactics and mastery instead of technoblabale stuff that they should have thought of and used a lot earlier. It is wiser and make a better T.V. show and better battles and wars.

 

the Federation has something better, where they don't need to waste resources: Section 31 (it's been around since the birth of the Federation and has done a lot of protection covertly

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)

 

but Section 31 is a secret organization,not a real army or anything like that!

 

Oh yeah, isn't it somewhat common for the scientists and the military to not get along? Its like the military are there to be protectors and they end up trying to take over command of a mission and yeah... sounds like a pretty familiar story.

So Georgie and Shoogun... is this supposed to be a science vessel with military or a military vessel with scientists? Military HATE being sent on missions to 'babysit' scientists, and scientists never want to give military command of the missions. Guess I'm glad these two kids aren't the writers cuzz I seen enough of those plots...

 

See below

As stated earlier, the Federation's goals are peace and exploration. Starfleet usually has enough weaponary to deal with basic threats and obsticles as war is something that the UFP is against. In most situations diplomacy is the first tactic used and battle is only a last resort. If the need for battle arises, usually the basic shipboard weaponary is already enough to protect themselves until the ship could flee or reinforcements arrive. It is only during war that a ship will add a crew of dedicated soldiers onboard and the ships are retrofitted with stronger weaponary and shielding. A pre-Federation example was during the Xindi conflict of ST Enterprise. Captain Archer at first doesn't want his ship to seem aggressive and threatning to civilizations that they hopefully would be allies with. It was only after the threat of that Xindi presented did he reluctantly agree to post soldiers aboard and upgrade the weaponary.

Section 31 is definitely branch of the Federation tasked with intelligence gathering and threat removal. However, it is a covert organization which is looked down upon as their methods of dealing with situations are questionable by most standards.

 

you'll lack of logic surprises me again!
DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE A CHOICE?

 

peace and exploration is one think,but not having the weapons to
defend you'll government is another.

no,it is a rogue agency.

 

1) those two things are not exclusive

2) It's not a rogue agency. It's another branch of Starfleet Intelligence. They search out an identify potential threats to the Federation. And once identified, they deal with them. Quietly. It's not that Starfleet doesn't sanction what they do; they don't submit reports or ask for approval for specific operations. They are an autonomous department. Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet Charter. It takes exceptional people to do what they do. People who can sublimate their ambitions, to the best interest of the Federation....
They believ in the same principals that every other federation citizen holds dear. But they do violate those principals as a matter of, course; in order to protect them. They deal with threats that jeopordize [Federation] it's very survival. If you knew how many lives they saved, I think you'll agree that the ends DO justify the means. They are not afraid to bend the rules every once in a while if the situation warrants it.

 

all cannon material says it's a rouge agency.
it is a rouge agency!