Star Wars vs Star Trek

Its off topic but....Char from the Original Mobile Suit Gundam looks just like Zechs ( Millardo Peacecraft ), Rau Le Crusae ( Its spelled wrong, but its close enough ), and Mwu La Flaga with his Neo mask on. Graham Acre will also look like him if his mask had the same visors. Like I said in the Is Lelouch Dead? thread, he is NOT dead, he only "killed" the name Lelouch vi Britannia, he is the driver of the wagon the C.C. was on. He didn't want to conquer the world, he wanted to focus all the world's hatred on him and then die ( as Lelouch vi Britannia at least ), so the world can be a more peaceful place. He wanted to avenge his mother and make a world where Nunllany can live happily, without the fear or being discovered and assassinated. Allelujah Haptism ftw!!

Time to get back on topic. Like I said, Turbolasers aren't lasers. Turbolaser accuracy...Well they can just fire a whole bunch of concussion missiles, they will be enough. Its not the turbolaser's accuracy, its the gunner's skills. It really depends on who is the gunner, is it the Spaarti clones? Kamino clones ( including the original 501st, because they are made by Kamino cloning technology )? or a non-clone? or a force-sensitive?. Spaarti clones is a serious problem addressed in the Republic Commando series, they are really low quality compared to the first generation Kamino clones ( the second generation ones are not as good as the first generation ). A lot of the Mandalorian training sergeants ( mostly Kal Skirata and Walon Vau ) said that even average clones ( that is the average troopers, not the RCs and ARCs ) are better then humans, they said that the clones are enhanced humans. So therefore this is my conclusion: Force users > Force sensitives ( there are force sensitive clones ) > First generation Kamino clones > Second generation Kamino clones > Average human > Spaarti clones. I don't know about "aliens" though.... We have to clarify....The difference between the Kamino clones and Spaarti clones are too great, we need to clarify which type of troopers are we using. You can't expect much from a clone that is grown in two years...

 

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Okay, but is it the Republic, the CIS, the Empire, the New Republic, the Galactic Alliance, or the weird new Sith Empire in the comics??

 

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Federation & Allies vs. Empire

 

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Inferior technology?? They didn't map, explored and conquered most of the Galaxy by being inferior and stupid, they even been to Rishi Maze ( I think its spelled that ), which is their satellite galaxy.

One shot? Excuse me, take a look at the scene again, I believe is 3 shots or more. True, Ion Cannons are designed to disable and/or weaken targets.

Okay....very nice......excuse me for not reading 800+ pages of the debate....I only read some of the older posts.

Its Spaarti clone's and the dumb aristocrats' fault. They didn't even have a enemy they considered formidable, so they don't even bother to do their best.

Agreed, the Empire rules with an iron fist, so most of their troops are not available for an invasion. In that case its Star Wars invading the Milky Way, I am fine with that.

Well the Vong are a different species while the humans in Star Wars are Homo Sapiens, they even call themselves humans. Still, the Jedi are able to use telekinesis on the Vong, its just that they can read their thoughts and detect them in the Force.

I agree, the Force is used to help the Sith and Jedi win wars, but it can win a war on its own.

This is not my field to debate in, ask someone else. I have no idea what a megaton can do, I know that a 21 kiloton bomb wiped out Nagasaki ( sorry, I am not confident about my spelling

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) and the Tzar is about 51 megatons. All I got to say about this is turbolasers are fairly rapid firing, the the number of turbolaser batteries per ship.

Dude 8 batteries??? Are you drunk??? Its a hell lot more then 8. Or do you mean the heavy turbolaser batteries, which are not counting is lighter ones. Remember 8 pairs, not 8. There are the lighter ones, the fighters, bombers, gunships ( it will be a pain to try to shoot down decent pilots, even if it is a one hit thing, Han Solo and Luke Skywalker make it look effortless, because they are aces ) concussion missiles, proton torpedoes, ion cannons....and such.... ISDs are not the only Star Destroyer class used by the Empire. Plus, the Venators are relics from the Clone Wars, they are outdated ( but still used )

Their gravity wells and tractor beams can hold them in place ( and play tug of war using multiple ships ) while the rest of the armaments just rip the ship apart. If they run away using warp drive, they Empire will just have to play along using hyperdrives.

I want to see the Federation "aces" ( note the quotations ) vs Imperial aces. They only destroyed the Death Star, because they got the plans, the Federation have to get the plans first.

Oh that answered a lot of my questions. To make it fair, at least a ceasefire, between the rebels and the Empire. I rather have the Galactic Alliance, but one can't ask for too much.

There are a lot of classes that are a lot better then the Imperial-class.

I will try to do my best, but don't expect me to know what a megaton can do though:bawl:

Okay, sounds good to me. I agree that the Force is not like a instant win card.

Mon Calamari are known for their shipbuilding skills. Frankly, they are even better then KDY. And where are you getting their ship building quantify from? The Empire still have boarder disputes, riots, anti-smuggling, and such. They can't send every ship they got to go smash the Rebels. The Rebels got not only the Mon Calamari, they also got some of the old Republic sympathizers ( even with in the GAR ), and some deserters, plus Mandalore rebelled didn't they? I haven't finished the book Imperial Commando: 501st yet so I don't know if they joined the Rebel Alliance ( well, if they didn't then it proves that not every rebellion is caused by them, they are just the largest ). DON'T SPOIL IT FOR ME! Mandalorians are very formidable.

No, its not that they can't fight without the lanes, its just that it will be difficult and the CIS will have an advantage over them. The republic can use micro jumps, which is safe enough. That would slow them down, but they won't be reduced to a crawl.

Agreed, just like the Vong did when they invaded the Galactic Alliance. They will send scout ships and probes long before they actually invade. They will camp out near the wormhole and prepare HoloNet systems and such. They are not dumb.

Like I said, its all Spaarti clones and the aristocratic commanders' faults. However, the ones that got their positions by old fashioned skills are pretty decent ( Vader hates the aristocrat ones, while the Emperor favors them. Vader like the ones that got their positions by brilliance ). Mitth'raw'nuruodo ( Thrawn ) is pretty intelligent. Vader himself is not bad either.

I am going to use the Expanded Universe sources that doesn't contradict the films directly.

True, the further in the future you see the less clear it is. Battle precognition only predicts a few moves in the future so it is very accurate ( unless one loses concentration obviously ). It also depends on the person using it.

Not all of the clones like their careers. They have no other choice. There are multiple types of Jango clones. There are three main types though: First generation Kamino clones ( The ARCs, the RCs, and the troopers that saw action in the clone wars ), second generation Kamino clones ( they were ordered during the late-clone wars, so they didn't see action during the clone wars ), and the second generation Spaarti clones ( the ones that is grown in two years, only a few of them saw action during the clone wars, because they are kept secret from the Jedi ). The first generation Kamino clones are the most superior, the second generation Kamino clones are made from second generation DNA ( DNA from the first generation clones, instead of Fett himself ), they are inferior to the first generation troopers. The Spaarti clones are made from second generation DNA and are grown in two years, their aim is even more awful then seen in the films ( perhaps they trained during the time skip? ). The first batches of the first-generation clones received the most training, the other batches are slightly rushed. I don't want to even think about what kind of training the Spaarti clones and the second generation Kamino clones received. Yes, but remember most of the 501st stormtroopers are either second generation or Spaarti clones, because a lot of the the first generation clones are too old, and/or killed in the clone wars and they are less numerous then the other Fett clones. Plus, many first generation clones deserted.

Stromtroopers are like the Imperial equivalent of the U.S. Rangers. You have to understand their accelerated aging ( I don't know if they fixed that or not, I will know once I finished the book ) and not fighting a proper war for nearly two decades. Their skills probably deteriorated. The had to fight in the corridors of the Death Star, and the Jungles,( I don't know what its called ), which are all places they don't excel at ( obviously, because of their armor are not camo armor ). They couldn't fight as well in the corridors in the Death Star, because they had TOO MUCH people, they should have sent a few people to chase after them instead of a crowd, I can imagine its very difficult to fight in corridors with a crowd of people ( dumb commanders, like I said, they should have more commanders that actually know what they are doing ). Plus, many of them thought it was a drill at first. The confusion of the situation, the terrain, and their numbers ( ironically ) probably caused them not to fight as well. They probably didn't want to damage too much to the Death Star, not they would of used thermal detonators and better combat tactics. The grunts....probably even better then the Spaarti clones.

Its a force ability http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_Meditation

True, I didn't think about the fact that they have an Empire that is almost the size of the Galaxy to run. My bad.... Its probably Palpatine's fault that they don't send all their can spare to smash the Rebellion. It was his fault that he didn't do it in the Clone Wars, the RCs, the ARCs, the Mandalorian training sergeants and even the Jedi commanders complained about it.

Just some super weapons and awesome ships.

Granted, but are they included in the debate??

Unless its hand to hand combat or covert operations ( I take that back, the Wookiees probably suck at stealth ). The Empire have decent special operation troops.

I take it as a compliment myself

Still considerably faster then warp drive. It also depends on if it is a civilian ship or a warship.

Granted. Still Obi-Wan and Luke Skywalker traveled from Tatooine to Aldereen ( sorry about my spelling ) in a few hours as stated by Han Solo. Sorry if I can't find the quote. The GAR deserters traveled from Coruscant to Mandalore in a few hours in Republic Commando: Order 66. Hyperspace is VERY fast, and it also depends on the drive too, the lower the class is the faster ironicly, Class 0.5 ( the Millennium Falcon ) is faster then Class 1 and Class 1 is faster then Class 2 and so on.

Han Solo have been from one side of the Galaxy to the other. Hyperdrive makes it possible. He is a smuggler remember?

Agreed, even though is a shame.

I saw this on National Geographic, is this by any chance what the Federation uses?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Strategically, that's what I meant, I get tactically and strategically confused. They are probably going to to some scouting and preparations before fighting, unless they have a super dumb and trigger-happy commander.

When the Vong destroyed ( or is it took over, I forgot ) the HoloNet, they still managed OK, but not as good as with HoloNet obviously. They can use messenger ships and such.

I expect them to actually help the battlefield.

Granted, there a few exceptions such as Rex.

Agreed

Some debaters don't think so.

Okay, I just thought maybe the Dark Side have a power that doesn't need someone with a weak mind. It would be cool though.

P.S. Please wait for me to respond to all you posts first, I type fairly slow.

 

Okay, now its clear. Like I said before, I prefer Galactic Alliance, but can't ask for too much

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. Anyways to make it fair, a ceasefire between the Empire and the Rebels.

 

OO, SEED/Destiny , and Wing, I only watched a bit of the original one.

 

Like I said before, I don't intend to think of it as a instant win card.

Where did you get the quantity of ISDs from?? Don't forget there are more classes of Star Destroyers then that.

They only need that man ships to take care of some puny rebels ( that is before Skywalker Jr. came along )

More ships pop out of Hyperspace and maybe even some hyperspace projectiles, they proved they can make things like that.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Super_weapons

The Galaxy Gun and the Centerpoint Station are two of my favorites because they can do their job even when they are across the Galaxy.

Sisko is an xenocidal ( I borrowed the term from Ender's Game ) bastard. I am not saying the Empire is any better though.

They shown that they are capable of putting them on an ISD intended for gambling and such.

Its like a person with a mace hitting the shield and not expecting the guy behind it to feel any pain at all. That damage counts as minor damage.

Venators are old, and most CIS ships are crap.

Show me a WWII ship that looks like this.

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And this

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Some of them look like WWII ships, agreed, but not nearly every single one have the same design like they do in Star Trek

 

Fine.

It's based off the number of ships dedicated to a System Sector and the old number of sectors. The only problem is that the method of sectors is old, so there could be more or less, but it's a reasonable baseline.

Yes, there are. However, most of those are the much weaker Victory class (which is designed for orbital landings and invasions), the Venator class (which is outdated and was phased out of service), the Indiccator (which is mostly used for creating a gravity well), the Imperial II (which there aren't many of even compared to the Imperial I), and the Super Star Destroyer (of which there are four).

No, that's a battle squadron. It's what the Empire sends to show it means business. Granted, there can be more than one squadron, but having more than three is rather rare and of course, expensive for the Empire to deploy.

That method is often used when the Empire is trying to lure the Rebels into an ambush. While you might be able to catch one ship off guard with that tactic, especially a ship that is used for raids and hit-and-run tactics, it's not an effective means of combat in war. It's also often the Battle Lines or the Battle Squadron that makes that sort of attack. Thus, there wouldn't be any use for it in this paticular method. It would be best for them to present all their forces at once, thus having a greater chance of overpowering the enemy's shields. This is especially important with the breakthrough of regenerative shielding that some more modern UFP ships deploy.

That's going to be a rather big task to take and again, you need to still hit. If it misses, the tactic is for naught and even if it hits, how powerful is it? Is it an asteroid or something? How far would the hyperlane open from the ship? How fast is it moving?

If it's an asteroid, chances are it's going to be pushed out of the way by the navigational deflector. If it's too far, the ship will evade it or blow it apart. If it doesn't move fast enough, same as before.

Most of which is lost tech.

Not really. You might wish to apply that more to the guy he was trying to stop; a known terrorist trying to chase Cardassians off the worlds belonging in the Demilitarized Zone. Sisko was simply copying his method using a special poison that wouldn't have any effect upon the Cardassians, hence forcing the two planets to switch populations in order to avoid a war with the Cardassian Union.

No one was actually killed, thanks to the population being fairly low and transporter technology.

Such as when?

But they still took damage. Your claim is also rather unsupportable. According to the Imperial Sourcebook, shields are not uniformly even. Just on their own they can suffer a power drop of up to 20%. In fact, your clam goes against the very idea of the Torpedo Sphere, whose job it is to monitor planetary shields with such issues and then pound that one area until they collapse and then target the shield generators.

So chances are, a heavy assault on one point of the shield is likely to cause bleed through damage.

Technology doesn't take massive leaps and bounds in twenty years--especially with Star Wars technology. While I suspect that more up to date Imperial ships--especially the Imperial I and Imperial II will display greater resistance, we're likely to see them not lasting that long in pitched combat.

Nor does everyone in Star Trek. The vast majority of Federation starships have a saucer design. Why they do so is unknown, but it's just as common as the Imperial's design for WWII warships. Even your top example is a clear ancstor from the WWII thought line. Notice the large flat forward hull of the ship and notice the bridge tower? That's a WWII design. And the reson for that design is so that the officers on the bridge can see what's going on. If they had sensors and the like, they'd bury the bridge down in with the rest of the hull because it's a large target--but in that time (and now still) it's required for them to have it because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Also, Klingon, Romulan, and Dominion have very different ship models. The Klingons and the Romulans have a love for bird styled warship and the Dominion has a mixture of WWII warship inspiration to their designs. That's not even mentioning the Borg.

Oh, and then of course we have the Starfleet badassery that is the Defiant:

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Okay, then we will go by your numbers.

I am just pointing out there are more Star Destroyers then the number you listed.

I agree that such a vast Empire and Navy is expensive to maintain and deploy.

Well, you asked what they would do when the Federation destroyed their ISD, I responded that more ships will come. Is it or is it not a valid option? I agree that it will be best if they present their forces at once.

Galaxy Gun is a projectile, much like a bullet. It moves at Hyperspace, so it will be fast.

It will be too fast, it moves at hyperspace

Some are not so lost, over half of the Centerpoint is refitted with new technology, the lead scientist that made the Sun Crusher wasn't dead, the Death Star plans are in the hands on the rebels.........

Oh, I thought he wiped out the planet of life

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Oh wait, yeah I remember that episode, I got confused for a while, because I didn't finish watching DS9

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Errant_Venture

My favorite ISD

Okay, I was wrong and mistaken, my bad, every human make mistakes. I apologize. Its true that they have separate shields for separate areas.

I agree, enough firepower focused at one place can destroy the shields and damage ( if not destroy ) the ship.

Okay, not massive leaps, but they improve. They made the Sun Crusher, World Devastator, Galaxy Gun....and such not that long after ROTJ.

I agree with the WWII style bridge, its not just WWII ships that are like that. Modern warships are like that too. I was always curious who invented the saucer style Federation ship.

I agree, the Mon Calamari and Vong have different designs as well.

A rare example I suppose, but then again I noticed that my examples are quite rare too, good point.

 

Inferior technology doesn't make someone stupid.

You misunderstand. My point was that an ISD isn't going to disable another ship with one shot. It requires multiple shots. Even a ground based Ion Cannon required about three or so shots to take down an ISD.

1) Wasn't talking to you.

2) Tongue and cheek. I haven't read the entire thread either, nor do I expect anyone else to.

.

Star Wars has always shown a display of bad aim. In the Malevolence Arch, we see General Kenobi order for three Venators to take target on the Malevolence's bridge and fire at maximum firepower. Even with the heaviest turbolaser batteries, they have at least 24 batteries, making it 48 guns pointing at them. They fired about two or three vollies and the target was located about two kilometers away at best (ie, about the distance of an ISD).

They hit once. And no, the Malevolence wasn't performing evasive manuevers. It was slowly dragging its crippled self through space.

You do realize that the Federation has millions of soldiers and crewmen at their disposal, right?

I think you mean 'can't' not 'can'. But yes.

The Force doesn't really work that way. It tries to balance itself out--it's easier to say that wars are caused because of the Force and end when the balance issue is concluded.

A megatons is a thousand kilotons. Hence, 45 megatons would be 45,000 kilotons. Hence, an ISD's weapons range about 5,000 kilotons to 15,000 kilotons.

Of course, that's a bit of a misuse of terms since energy weapons should be calculated into joules and watts, not tons (ie, bombs). Thus, an ISD turbolasers is between 20.9 petajoules and 62.7 petajoules. And remember that most of the stuff calculated in debates like these are rough. Real nuclear weapons have a great deal of alternate issues that are really just too complicated for us to bother with.

No.

I was refering to their heavy batteries, simply because that's the highest yield for the ship. Smaller turbolasers are thus of lower yield. And batteries are taken into account being double barreled. Otherwise the conclusion would have been 40 megatons, not eighty.

As I said, I am well aware of that.

Actually ST ships have little trouble targeting and taking out fighters. Even Cardassian cruisers (which are generally inferior to their Federation counter-parts) are able to easily tear apart a squadron.

While true, the fun fact that the Imperials think of fighters as a thing of the past sort of undermines that idea. The entire TIE series is completely unshielded, has light armor, and is basically there to keep enemy fighters off their motherships.

No, they arent. But they're also the most numerous of the strongest ones available. The Victory class is no match for an ISD--not even close.

Correct.

Missed that part about inferior weapons and shielding, didn't you? Also, Imperial ships are used to tractoring smaller ships. Them holding a larger, more powerful ship is dubious at best.

Not really. They jump into an alternate dimension when they go to hyperspace.

I suspect the people with phasers, shields, and quantum torpedoes are going to have the vast advantage.

Federation starships have excellent sensors. They'd be able to detect the shaft after a thoughrough scan. Or they'll locate a weak point in the shield and pound their way through.

Not really, no.

That's fine, as long as you can follow a flowchart.

Rebel Alliance Sourcebook.

It's not just that. The Empire is constantly using its fleets to keep the most of its Empire in line.

No, they can't. Their entire offensive in the Outer Rim was in jeapordy. Perhaps you might want to refresh yourself with the movie.

It has nothing to do with being dumb, so much as it does being a vital weakness.

Spaarti clones are not the majority.

Aside from Thrawn and Vader, most groups are barely marginable when it comes to strategy.

That's fine.

Unfortunately, we know that overwhelming firepower can take out the average Jedi. Nor is the remaining Sith Lords in any shape to go out in the field like that.



Not all of the clones like their careers. They have no other choice. There are multiple types of Jango clones. There are three main types though: First generation Kamino clones ( The ARCs, the RCs, and the troopers that saw action in the clone wars ), second generation Kamino clones ( they were ordered during the late-clone wars, so they didn't see action during the clone wars ), and the second generation Spaarti clones ( the ones that is grown in two years, only a few of them saw action during the clone wars, because they are kept secret from the Jedi ). The first generation Kamino clones are the most superior, the second generation Kamino clones are made from second generation DNA ( DNA from the first generation clones, instead of Fett himself ), they are inferior to the first generation troopers.
[/QUOTE]

Um, what? That doesn't make any sense. The Kamino's should still have the original template for the first generation.

There were only 3 million Jango clones from the original batch and 1.2 million was in the early part of the war. I can't honestly see many of them deserting.

I don't know where you're getting that the Storm Troopers are an aged and dying unit. The original Jango Clones are rare because after the Kamino Revolt, Palpatine thought that having one template allowed for too much corruption and hence he had more put in.

No, not really. They just honestly couldn't spare that many ships. Most of the Imperial Navy was around just trying to keep the peace. Only a small fraction of the galaxy was actively rebelling and only a small portion of the Empire was fighting back.

Given that they aren't part of the Federation nor are they traditional allies, no.

Actually, their races is often limited to human due to a mixture of racisim and cost. Think how much it would cost to have hundreds or even thousands of uniform and weapon variants for all the aliens in Star Wars.

In this case it was a Galaxy class starship.

Actually it makes sense that smaller ships tend to be faster, due to the fact they can travel through lanes that the larger ships can't fit in.

Dude, hyperbole. I'm not disagreeing with you either--it's just that's a really bad example.

More or less.

Just remember that tactics is the stuff you use on the active battle ground (ie, cover fire and the like) and strategy is usuall stuff like troop movement or battle plans.

The problem is that the holonet doesn't exist in Star Trek's universe. So they'll have to use some sort of buffer or something.

And more often than not he's likely to die from it.

Do you wish to challenge it?

No, it's sort of a requirement.

 

Wow thats alot read. Anyways right to it, I think it should be all of SW and all of ST. Limiting it to just the Empire is unfair if your allowed Klingons, Vulcans, and Rommulans. Hellblade would you agree to it being The Federation, Klingons, Rommulans, and Vulcans vs The Empire, Rebel Alliance, Zann Consortium, and Yuzzan Vong?

About comms: In Voyager it took them years to send a single transmission from Delta quadrant. While we can send transmissions from the Outer Rim to the Core Worlds.

 

Whoopty do. The thing about Trek is it's based on reality and they often show the limitations we can relate to, like struggling to get from the Delta Quad to home taking extra long, or the comm signal being slower compared to SW. But that is how we learn to appreciate when they make a break through to get around the limitations of reality. SURE Voyager will take ages to get home at max warp but its not to say that no technology exists that can get them home faster as they've often gone great distances in REAL short periods, and have actually communicated in real time with Starfleet from earth.

SW sending communications across a galaxy without showing how they achieved it or that they ever had realistic limitations - yeah. Comparing SW to Trek in that respect is like saying Fuck it - the force can defeat anything, even Q. SW for the win, and just because Trek shows they have some sort of limitations and SW is fantasy overkill extreme.

 

Okay, that's not at all fair. First off, Star Wars has its own cons as far as their technology goes. Taking cheap pot shots about each other's passtime is not the way to go. Sure, I can understand the heat of debate and when your opponent is inflatting his numbers, not to mention ignoring every counter-argument that's shredded his arguments, but let's not just go about flaming shall we?

Then I'm telling you right now--the Empire is fucked.

You realize that altogether those three have about 90,000 to maybe 120,000 starships compared to an Empire with 1.6 million combat capable warships, plus transport and support ships? How is that even remotely unfair?:bugeye:

Okay, first thing is that the Vulcans are part of the Federation. They're one of the four founding members. Second, the Klingons are allies of the Federation and third, the Romulans would not want another Dominion-like force invading their sector of the galaxy again. There is a very logical reason as to why these three powers would ally themselves against the Empire.

The Empire hates the Rebel Alliance.

The Rebel Alliance hates the Empire. If anything they'd joing the Federation simply because the Federation's forces alone are hundreds of times larger, not introducing the Klingons and the Romulans.

The who?

No, they hate all the above. You can't just attach bitter enemies to each other and expect them to work and then only force the other side to use allies and members.

And? Again, this works off of a network. Without it, Imperial ships cannot send long signals to each other. The HoloNet is useful, but stop pretending like it's such a massive jump ahead of Trek when it really isn't.

 

And that's fine, but when we think of the lean, mean champion of the line--it's the ISD.

That is not to say the Empire won't put up a good number of forces, but you have to remember what these people are used to producing in war. The Clone Wars showed us that a massive fleet is only about 12 ships--including unarmed Acclamators (look at the screen caps from anyone in the movies or the TV shows--they're all unarmed).

Even though the Empire kicked up the Republic military from low millions to billions--hundreds of billions, they're not going to deploy a massive fleet at an enemy. On the other hand, taking systems and sectors is going to be difficult for the Federation given how slow they travel outside known space. Unless they get a hand on maps of the area, their warp speeds are in the cellar.

Do you mean as in a Battle Squadron using more of its ships or the Empire sending more fleets. If it's the former, they're more likely to break rank and run if the biggest thing in their fleet just go smacked around like it was a dog's chew toy, if it's the later, then yes. The Emperor is likely to respond with a higher level of paranoia now that his ships have met with considerable resistance.

Personally, we'd probably see him deploying an SSD if we're far enough along or the Death Star if it's still around. Knowing the Emperor, he'll demonstrate it on a nearby planet, killing thousands to billions of people in hope that the Federation will back down.

In all likelyhood, it's going to instigate a full scale war. The problem here is how this would be handled. Although no doubt that the Death Star's ray shields would stop even multiple phaser blasts from a small fleet, she seems to display a distinct lack of particle shielding in the movies. That means she isn't going to do well if multiple torpedoes start blasting into her hull and tearing out large sections.

And it gets worse too. You know how shockwaves don't exist in a vacuum? Well, they sorta do in that if an explosion occurs in space and hits an atmosphere, it will create the appropriate shockwave. And once a torpedo hits the Death Star and blows a hole in its armor, making way for the next torpedo--you get a shockwave that will propigate through the corridors of the Death Star itself.

However, we do know from the novel that the Death Star does has some form of particle shielding, as it did deflect asteroids. Now, if this can be upscaled to fight off a Federation fleet, then the battle is entirely different. More than likely the first assault will fail and the Federation forces will retreat.

However, knowing how the Federation acts, they'll guess that throwing more numbers at the station will just increase their losses and strengthen the Empire's power in their territory. As a result, the Federation will look to what happened at the battle. They'll go over scans and realize there's a hole where the vent is--with a proper amount of force the fleet could force the shields down and fire a torpedo all the way through.

That would be extremly inaccurate if used without presice coordinates and calculations. When was this weapon used by the way?

The Rebels would never build a Death Star. It's a sink hole for cash for one thing and for two it's just immoral from their standpoint. As for the Sun Crusher--if the machine was so well replicatable, then why aren't there more? It's not that big. Clearly, it must be very difficult to build. Specter of the Past even dismissed such a notion of a Returned Grand Admiral Thrawn having found one.

No, although an order for such a task does exist within Starfleet. It's called General Order 24. When given the order, a single or fleet of starships will bombard the inhabited surface of the planet.

No problem.

I see...

Again, All save for the Death Star are superweapon tech. That means weapons that often hold great power--but have a brief history or are in very low supply.

The Death Star is barely above that, but remember that this technology was originally designed by the Geonosians and later improved as it was being built by the New Order.

Typically, most navys and the like use a similar style ship, often due to the designs of why the first one worked and buffing out the problems.

 

I want a laser sword.

 

Yes but according to Kittimaru 1 of yours can take out 100 of ours. While I find this false if Kittimaru is correct 90,000 can take out 9,000,000.

Ok I see why they would ally.

The Empire and Rebel Alliance do hate eachother but I don't see an alliance with the Fed's.

The Zann Consortium is the largest illegal crime syndicate in Wars. You would have to play Empire At War: Forces Of Corruption to really know about them.

In no way am I saying it's a lot better than Trek but, we do have the advantage as far as that goes.

 

Okay, so you're saying Star Trek is based on reality. What ever you are smoking should be illegal to even be near.

Warp Drive: By one theory it is making the space in front of you shring and behind you expand. By another it is taking apart space/time in fornt of you and reassembling it behind you.

Hyperspace: Punching through to a reality where the Einsteinian C barrier does not exist.

Both seem pretty fantastical, though the second one doesn't have me wonder what kind of horrific danage can happen to the universe as you travel.


Phasers: A, as of yet, undiscovered particle that has varrying effect on materials for nuerological shock to outright vaporization.

Blasters: A combination Chemical Laser and Plasma Canon.

The first might as well be magic.


Transporter and Replicators: Using Quantum mechnics to convert matter to energy and back again. The first for transport the other for basically rations

Shuttlecraft and Provisions: While not as flashy they workd and are less prone to breakdown.

Again Star Treks answer might as well be magic,


Seem to me you have you definations mixed op

 

Star Wars is morereallistc. Replicators defys the 1st law of physics; matter cannot be Created nor destroyed.

I'd also like to bring up something I said a little while back that Concussion missiles could tear up your ships. The ST reply was that your sheilds block solid objects. That is not true however as in the new ST movie SOLID missiles almost destroyed the Kelvin and the same missiles dropped the Enterprises sheilds to 36% and destroyed a medical bay. And your ships ability to shoot down missiles is terrible. So I do think that Concussion missiles would work.

 

Then what's the point of a vs. debate if you stack the odds?

Just what wouldn't the Rebel Alliance love about a large government with far superior ships destabalizing the Empire who no intention of reigning over them?

Okay.

It is faster, but for the most part it's just a larger network.

 

Neither is all that realistic. Trying to compare which is the least guilty is like Vader and Sauron both trying to think of ways to make the other look less evil.

That's not how a replicator works. Replicators work by converting matter into energy and energy into matter--which as we know with modern science, is possible (though such a machine is thus far not).

Okay. Let's ignore the fact that you've chosen a ship that's a century old and from an alternate universe. The fact is they did have shields. Unfortunately, the Narada's weapons blew right through them. One of the officers even commented on it 'it's like our shields aren't even there!' (paraphrasing).

How about we try something that's from TNG+'s century and one of their most modern warships?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Hellblade8#p/f/79/ff_PMoAHwHs

Time Index 1:26-1:28 you can see the piece of the Valdore flying off and smacking agianst the Enterprise's shields, not to mention the multiple torpedoes that hit from before and after.

So yeah, I think we can easily drop that argument.


EDIT: TW Scott? Really? I already corrected him. Do you have to be a douche about it?