Star Wars vs Star Trek

we are the knights who say : "NI"

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What's the point of that? We can have fun with physics figured out from special effects in shows and movies for years (Has been done right here and Wong is wrong by the way) but you should at least understand that special effects are made this way ONLY because they look good. The people who makes them and, probably, also those guys that write the scripts simply don't adhere to actual physics if they look bad on screen and they change the rules in places to make an episode that would be impossible otherwise or simply make mistakes because they are human beings, after all. Lucas and Roddenberry didn't have physics in mind when they created Wars and Trek, but a beautiful story... I sincerely like both and I think we should consider their capabilities for what they are supposed to do, scripts and novels wise. So a SD can level a planet, sure it can do it! But a GCS and a CCS can do it also because it is stated in episodes and movies... Obviously the federation (also with its superweapons that can pass through shields and high technology) is heavily outnumbered and it's easy to assume that a GCS would be easily beaten by a SSD. The problem is that the federation has time travel... It must be inhibited somewhat before you can defeat the feds and Hyperdrive is faster but doesn't work without maps... I would suggest an alliance with the federation is the better scenario and it would pave the way for an easier invasion of the Trek galaxy.

 

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I'm new here... This thread is fascinating (quoting Spock a little bit). 796 pages!

 

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Yes, I think that a Type II phaser is more powerful than a blaster rifle.

The BlasTech E-11 (stormtrooper standard weapon) battery has a capacity of 500 shots, its maximum range is 300 meters and its weight is roughly 4 kilos if I can remember.

The Type III phaser (comparable federation weapon) has an emission in the terahertz range (TNG: The Mind's Eye) and has a few hours of fire at full power but I don't remember where they said it.

 

how cab you assuse that a ssd is better, by making that assumption without any evidebce is stupid, while the trekkers have been giving evidence thriughout the whole thing and i know you said about tthe physics not being accurate then without that how can you possibly make a compaarrison, in nemmisis the thaleron radiation could wipe out all life on corocent bye bye wars and also the scimitars cloak is so adcancded trek ships cant detect it nevermind primitive wars ones also you heard of red matter one drop can create a black hole that can destroy a planet what defence do you have

 

Char, you cannot even spell correctly.

The Thaleron radiation device is a unique device that again only one person was able to use as a weapon and well he's dead. Even if it was mass produced, SW has planetary shields that can vaporize falling moons. These shields are nigh impenetrable on a normal basis. In fact the only two weapons that reliably penetrate these shields are the DS Superlaswer with has a minimum output equal to 7 years of our suns total output and a Torpedo Sphere which launched 500 Heavy Proton Torpedoes each a 200 gigaton weapon to hit the shield simultaneously.

I would point out that an exploding warp core is well below 50 gigatons and that is known for obliterating even the most heavily armed. armored and shielded ships.

Also ST:TMP makes a wonderful point. V'ger fired fifty or more plasma torpedoes at Earth each Hundreds of times more powerful than the one the the Enterprise BARELY survived. The the desired result of these weapons was to obliterate surface life only.

 

Actually Wong is only wrong in that he is grossly understating the power of the STar Wars Death Star Superlaser. The figure he gives is the absolute minimum to break gravitational binding energy of a planet Alderaan's size. Such an energy discharge would slowly break the planet up. You would need tremendously more power to cuase it to rapidly violently explode.

 

The Death Star superlaser is clearly different than a turbolaser (I think it works in a completely different manner). Obviously a Star Destroyer should be able to level a planet (canon). The turbolaser power figures based on the asteroid, however, are lame: Wong made large assumptions about the composition of the asteroid and, honestly, we don't see a gigaton explosion there. Nevertheless, we all know the enormous firepower of the empire so I think we shouldn't base our assumptions on what we see on screen (sloppy made FX) but on what we can read (scripts and novels). The UFP ships shows a firepower comparable to a Star Destroyer (they can level a planet too) but they are outnumbered and they don't have something that is on the same level as a SSD. They have time travel, though... We must befriend the feds and then proceed to conquer Trek galaxy.

 

It's simple, a SD shows the same firepower as a Galaxy, or a Sovereign... These ships can level the surface of planets with planetary shields in a matter of minutes (Wars and Trek canon). A SSD is more powerful than a SD so... Thalaron, OK. We can take into account all your powerful superweapons (Genesis, quantum torpedoes and so forth) But the UFP is still heavily outnumbered. Time travel, though, ensures a Federation victory and Wars ships need some maps for Hypertravel. I suggest an alliance... The borg would be easily defeated then, they are too stupid to win.

 

Maybe it is the effect of earth planetary shield... In TOS every planet had a shield. The warp core... How do you know? Special effects here? Every warp core explosion looks different in Trek. I think that the suncrusher is more powerful than the Federation average superweapons so we should have the edge on the WMD side but I noticed that Trek ships (script) seems more maneuverable than SDs and that they can fire from a big distance... Still no match for SSDs. Looks like the Federation has better sensors also... Still outnumbered but time travel.

 

true i guess i like your reasoning

 

scott if you disagree with me fine but dosnt mean you can make fun of my spelling because im using my windows phone touch pad and those things are fiddly, anyway i just want to ask where does it say that shinzon is the only man who can use the radition and even if it does most of wars heroes are also dead the empire is in ruiin so then what will happen oh and radiation and weapon fire are completly different so have you any evidence that it could block it, and i appologize about the spelling guys i hope it dosnt make my posts seem odd

 

Char, that is TW Scotch, our resident crazy and asshole. His only "arguing" abilities include making extraordinary leaps of (un)logic, assaulting and insulting those arguing against him, and generally ignoring questions he can't answer the way he wants.

He is adamant that Star Wars could defeat Star Trek, even though he could never provide ANY proof to back his (and Wongs) exorbitant claims of superior everything (and power levels that would rip the very fabric of local space-time) and he likes to think that Star Trek uses current-level energy-technology levels... which is foolish at best.

He is, honestly, best put on your ignore list and left there to rot - no matter what you do, he won't argue a point with any factual evidence, and should you back him into a corner with real facts, he'll simply ignore you until you give up and drop it.

 

Shinzon is not the only one able to use Thalaron raditation - it was BANNED in the Federation (and indeed, the Romulan Stare Empire, the Klingon Empire, and other empire) by a peace treaty... it's much like today's weapons treaties... Thalaron has only ONE use - to annihilate EVERYTHING that lives. Hence, why it was banned.

It's not that they can't use it... the Federation and her allies are not ALLOWED to use it, nor do they desire to do so.

And no, Star Wars shields could not block it... hell, they couldn't block a basic Phaser blast, all things considered...

 

Actually, a centuries old Constitution class starship (Star Trek, TOS) can slag the surface of a planet in roughly an hour. Imagine what a ship-of-the-line Sovereign or Vesta (USS Titan) class ship could do... or a Prometheus or Defiant class warship

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Again, problem is, even the smallest Trek warship is a threat to a SD... your basic Intrepid class Light Cruiser could obliterate a Star Destroyer, simply because their Photon Torpedoes are just as powerful as a Sovereign or Defiant class's photon's. All the size of the ship really determines are:

A) Phaser Power - larger ships can use higher-power phasers
B) Staying Power - larger ships can support higher-power shields, but smaller shield grids are more easily reinforced and kept active

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C) Armor - obvious
D) Staying Power - larger ships carry larger fuel and supply reserves

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A Defiant class starship, a pure warship at it's core, would annihilate a SD, and probably even an SSD... I mean, the SSD has no chance of hitting a small, nimble, Defiant class starship, and the Defiant's pulse phasers and quantum torpedoes pack the same level of firepower as a Sovereign class ship, but in a much smaller, harder to hit, and equally defended package

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Problem is, Alderaan didn't violently explode, despite what you might think. If it had, that "asteroid field" that the Falcon ran into wouldn't have been there in such a density

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The planet was, instead, explosively decoupled and the debris lazily floated apart.

 

1) The DS SuperLaser is nowhere near that firepower output... an you can't even begin to TRY to prove it does.

2) Where have you ever seen the effect of an uncontrolled Matter/AntiMatter reaction of less than 50 gigatons? Hell, it was able to seal a rupture in the FABRIC OF SPACE for Gods sake...

3) V'ger wasn't trying to obliterate the Earth... if you remember, the Energy Spheres (not plasma torpedoes you dolt) were actually a part of V'gers method of gathering data, along with a plasma beam that scanned the Enterprise... I mean, it's entire mission was to "learn all that could be learned"...

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/V'Ger

And Scotch... you can't argue correctly, spell correctly, and I reckon you don't do much else correctly without strict supervision... so don't go attacking someone who's typing on a bloody phone, aight?

 

That is "A Taste Of Armageddon" (that was a great episode)... General order 24 or cancel all life on a planet surface. I was talking about shielded planets, though. The defiant class ships are badass.

 

Well, these are huge assumptions... SSDs are really big. I don't think that a Defiant would win. A Defiant should be able to destroy a SD, but after a hell of a battle. Come on! Wars aiming system is not that bad...