Star Wars vs Star Trek

so its 25,000 then,not 1million.

dinky fighters dont count as ships.neither do shuttles for that matter.especialy if they are launched from cap ships.

you do know the borg have MILLIONS of cubes ,right?

and you have seen the size and firepower diffrence between an SD and a cube,right?



also,the MF is a scrap heap,take away its barely functional hyperdrive and its not even space debris.

a few micro warp jumps around it, blasting it with phasers each time should disable it in seconds.then one more shot from still well
outside its attack range should vaproize it into the cosmic dust it deserves to be.

severly limited attack range and a busted hyperdrive is not a very formidable oppenent.

 

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Can you not read properly? Do you need to go back to preschool and learn again?
25,000 IMPERATOR-CLASS STAR DESTROYERS.
Usually, a sector group is 2,400 starships...24 of which are SDs.
Considering the number of systems in the SW galaxy, there are MILLIONS of total starships in the Imperial Navy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Navy

 

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wikipedia is not accurate information.you should know that by now.


so its 2.5 million ships for the imperial fleet total.

why did you not just post 2.5 million?



also,each borg cube has a sphere that is as big as a SD.basicly your still outnumbered just by the borg.

and hell,the cardassians can make 618 ships a year and 443 longrange missles[one will wipe out a small moon],and they are at the LOWEST end of manufacturing for the alpha quad.

so if all 150 memeber species in the federation made at least as much as the cardassians the feds can have at least 92,000 ships a year.
that includes cap ships, freighters and fighters.and thats just for one section of one quad of space.and that doesnt include the klingons ,romulons, dominion,breen,jemdhar,or any of the other countless species.

your still outnumbered and your still outgunned.

 

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Actually, there is no true reading of the future, if there was, it would only mean whoever would win was going to win using whatever means they meant to use in the first place. Based on the reason, when one knows how the future will play out, the future will change because of that individual either believing that that will come true, fearing it will come true, or somesuch. Even in the Foundation novels, by Isaac Asimov, where the future was predicted mathematically, only probable things were found, not definite. If one of these people saw themselves leading their kingdom (or whatever) to victory through use of their mental powers, and then was killed by a random supernovae or some other occurence, there is not much chance that that future will come true, is there? Of course, by the same token, maybe a single strand of DNA will survive the catastrophe and accidentally find its way into a cloning vat which accepts it and pumps out a copy, who leads his group to that victory. Anything, any future is possible, but not necessarily likely. If the men that predict the future are never wrong, then you simply must remember that there is a first for everything.

Oh, and Mars, though I know you're not listening to me, when one of these "dinky" fighters has as much firepower as one of your light warships (TIE Defender, anyone?) then it really does count. And, consider again that you also have all the ships of the Rebel Alliance, Old Republic, New Republic, Hutt Empire, Yuuzhan Vong, Hapan Cluster, Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium, Chiss Ascendancy, Sith, the Lords of the Expanse, and the Smuggler's Alliance (amongst even more groups) bearing down on you as well. Many, many more than a mere million ships.

 

So says those who cannot produce a reasonable arguement.

Because detail is better than vagueness.

Outnumbered, but not outgunned.

 

wikipedia can be changed by anyone at anytime,thats why its not accurate.

and i dont see how your not outgunned.

TL dont pack the 500GT punch you wish they had,its more like 5kt.not one book or movie shows ANY TL do any where near 500gt worth of explosion.which IS your basis for argument.

meanwhile the enteprise can vaporize a SD worth of borg cube in one phaser shot.[if you dont belive me look at the comparison shots i made].

http://flickr.com/photos/72609707@N00/

 

Most official cannon resources list that at the height of Imperial power, the Empire had 25,000 ISDS, and a couple thousand Eclipse Class Super Star Destroyers not including Imperial I/II Class Star Destroyers.

In terms of tie fighters/destroyers they have millions of them.

However, this is still a low number compared to the "MILLIONS and MILLIONS" that many rabid SW kids claim.

Taking into consideration of how large the SW galaxy is, these numbers are actually quite low and pathetic. They would need billions of Capital ships to properly protect Imperial territory which covers "one million star systems"


Go to The Galactic Empire Data Bank to find out about Imperial ships

Go to Daystrom Technical Institute to find out about Fed ships.

 

Executor. Not Eclipse. They only made 2 eclipses. And it was a couple hundred Executor-class SSDs, but that's still a LOT considering that an Executor is 19 kilometers long, or so.

Hundreds of millions is closer, considering the many ships and orbital stations and garrisions the empire posseses.

 

The Borg are a non-issue much like almost every race in the Milky Way.

Firepower:
The firepower demonstrated in ESB from a single Turbolaser dwarfs the firepower of an entire Federation Galaxy Class Crusier. It was vaporizing nickel-iron asteroids of 40, 50 and 70 meter in less than a quarter of a second. Not blowing them apart but vaporizing them. That was film. novelizations and radio drama described 110, 13, and 160 meter asteroids being vaporized in a single blast.

In Attack of the Clones, Jango Fet's ship Slave 1 (a modified Firespray scout fighter) was using rapid fire Blaster Cannons to shatter 20, 30, and 40 meter asteroids also of nickel-iron. It's dropped seismic charges pulverized much larger asteroids with astounding ease.

Shielding:
Star Wars does not rely on oscilating shields. Careful design and programing maked it easy to create small hole in the shields just as Turbolasers bolt, Ion bolts, or missles are passing through. Not to mention that one set of shields is only a meter from the hull and the other set in a few microns below. Ships are designed to take bambardment from other capital ship for extended periods. The fight above Endor took thirty minutes before ships shields began failing. The Ships in the Hoth asteroid belt had been taking hit for two days before the hit from a 70 meter asteroid at a effective speed of 3600 km/h (extreme low end) to 18,000 km/h (high end) took out between 50% to 60% of a bridge tower.

Armor and Structural Integrity:
Federation hulls are eight inches thick judging from the windows of oficers quarters. Their structural supports are so weak that only a very rare few designs can land at all. They rely on structural integrity fields to keep everything together. The other races have similiar problems.

In Star Wars even the massive Executor can land. In fact it is rare to find a ship design that can't. Armor is seen as meters thick. Even their internal Blast doors are thicker than 130 cm as witnessed that Qui-Gon's light saber was not peaking through the Neimodian Freighter's blast doors in Phantom Menace.

Speed:
It is possible to jump across the whole Star Wars galaxy in days with a class one hyperdrive and proper calculation. Travel in hyperspace ignores all obstacles unless they produce a sizabe gravity well. Even then the ship drops to normal space before it encounters said effect. Jumps of a thousand light years or less take second and can be calculated easily. Jumps of a hundred lightyears can be done with just ships scanners.

Notes on Borg Adaptation
Borgs adapt to become more resistant to attacks. This allows them to use their shielding more effectively, but it doesn't always help. If the attack is too powerful it does not matter how efficent the shielding is, it will fail.

Picture if you will that a borg vessel meets a single ISDII. The borg try to scan the vessel but it is shielded, the hull is too dense, and the ISDII is jamming sensors. They can tell there is extremely heavy shielding of a type that makes their own seem flawed. Calculating slowly they figure the ship must be all defense. The shielding technology will make them better. So the borg give their standard resistance is futile hail. A split second later ion bolts strike their vessel shutting down massive sections and killing drones with feed back. Then the vessel starts opening fire with more firepower than a fleet of Galaxy Class crusiers. Analysis proves a moot point as it does not even take half a second for the cube to be annhilated. The data never gets transmitted as the cube was destroyed by the first barage.

 

yes im well aware you think TLs are 500gt.ALL visual refrences show them to be around 5kt.

fetts ships shooting asteroids proves that.

only 20 meter asteroids?

thats minor space debris.

why do you think having to shoot space pebbles out of your way show massive shield power?

a hand phaser can vaporize 5 meter rocks.



not to metion the fact the borg ADAPT RETARD!!!!!!!!after ONE incounter with them thy will be IMMUNE to your tiny ships,you can shot all day long at them and youll just deplete your own power.

thats how the borg work,i know you WISH they didnt become immune to weapons,but they do,and since you CANT change frequency or modulate your weapons you ZERO chance against them.

its funny how you act like the borg have never seen ions or energy weapons before.

the borg have NEVER been stopped by shields,the can scan and beam throu ANY shielding you have[trans dimensional transporters dumbass,nothing can stop them].

 

Awesome, you see why Prescience would ultimately win then. Since Paul, LetoII, etc, could see the future and all outcomes, they could determine which actions to take to get the future they wish to have. That's great about Asimovs books, however this isn't Asimov we are talking about, it's Dune. The rules of Asimovs books don't apply to the Dune universe, therefore are irrevelent in stating.

As for being a first for everything, yep, I agree totally. Leto II proved this by not looking into the future to see when and how his death would occur. Why didn't he want to know? Because he wanted something that would surprise him.. It is pretty boring when you know all the outcomes of everything that is ever going to happen, now isn't it.

 

Mar 13 why do you continue to post messages about a topic you obviously have no credible ideas about?

You have to get a good sensor lock to use transporters.

The Borg are not immune to weaponry but more resistant.

Star Wars shield do not oscilate there fore they do not need to modulate frequencies to resist borg transporter and weapons. It is obvious that the Borg's amazing shield penetrating ability arise from the fact that they scan the enemy shields and time their weapons and fire rates to happen for the brief lull in protection. SW has no such weakeness.

Borg adaptation relies on using frequecies that strengthen their shields at the moments enemy fire is incoming. The shield being struck is still drained of some power, thus the ability of fleets of ships to dmamage borg cubes by overwhelming their shields.

Ion Weapons are not stopped by shields. They cause massive feedbacks in every electronic and energy system that they strike. Sure the borgs could eventrually make a type of surge protector to help reduce the effect, but like modern surge protectors sometimes it does no good.

As for the Turbolasers on a ISDII they have a 250 terajoule lower limit. This lower limit assumes that it took a second to vaporize a 20 meter asteroid. IN ESB we saw 40, 60, and 70 meter asteroids in a quarter second. This supports an idea of much more powerful weapons.

Finally the one thing that puts lie to your most of you statements a 20 meter asteroid is hardly common space debris. You hit a chuck of nickel-iron that size even at 20 miles an hour and you are going to know it.

 

the borg use transdimensional transporters,they pass throu another dimension to beam on board,shields are uslesss to stop them from beaming on board.

not to mention the fact their sensors are not stopped by shields,and they have tractor beams that SPECIFICLY deplete shield strength.

you lost to ewoks and you think you can take the borg,thats just funny and pathetic.

 

Ya know, this thread loses it's laughs when you put Mars on the ignore list

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Now it just reminds me of beating a helpless kitty while it sits in the corner taking it all.

Is it worth it? Fuck yeah it is.

 

1 cube = over 150 SDs in mass and firepower

armour-adaptive shielding capable of repelling ANY attack after it has adapted,self repairing systems that regenerate ALL ships systems

weapons-shield depleting tractor beams,phasers,disrupters,and can adapt and mimic ANY attack

propulsion-warp1-10,transwarp,and can adapt and mimic ANY scanned OR assmilated propulsion technology

crew-5000-200000 drones,

special abilities- transdimensional transporters,assmilation probes,secondary sphere pods

attack range-1-5,000,000 kms

fleet strength-estimated between 100,000 and 2.5 million


SW=outnumbered and outgunned

 

Well.. Since I have mars on ignore.. Did he post something about me??!?!? If so can someone quote it so that I can see it. I'm down for a good laugh.

 

I just watched the Star Trek Voyager episodes with Species 8472. Species 8472 would destroy the Star Wars universe by themselves. They don't even need any help. They have the ability to create a quantum singularity and go to any point in the galaxy instantly, and then retreat to fluidic space where they can't be followed. Their ships have the firepower to destroy an entire planet. Yes, their ships have this much firepower. They don't need a star base like Star Wars does in order to destroy a planet. They could destroy a star destroyer with 1 ship and the death star with 3. Star Wars would lose against them, and doesn't stand a chance when you factor in all the other Star Trek species and ships.

 

8472 can also rip throu starship hulls and pass throu shields.

theres nothing in sw that is even on the same level as the borg,let alone 8472.

hell,8472 killed EVERYTHING in there UNIVERSE,thats more impressive then anything sw has.

yet,the rabid warsies claim the trekkies are diluted.so,so sad.


one 8472 bioship could probably take on the ENTIRE empire by it self. it might take some time,but theres nothing in sw that even comes close to the firepower or verocity of 8472.

 

Actually, Dru, SW destroyed entire solar systems with an indestructible starfighter...the Sun Crusher.

Opteron, you misunderstood my relating Asimov to Dune. The fact is, Prescience, if it tells the absolute future, could not possibly be altered. If it tells a possible future, it is not definite. If, as you say, the future could be seen in order to decide what actions to take, then it is merely a possible future, not definite. Then comes my point about Asimov's books. The Foundation was set up to recreate the Empire after its fall in approx. 1000 years. Hari Seldon, the founder, created a plan through the use of psychohistory, the science of predicting the future through mathematics. His plan created probabilities based on the actions of the "mob" that is, the majority of people. It was the philosophy of psychohistory that the individual was unimportant. However, in one of his books, Foundation and Empire, one individual was able to route the entire plan, and then it fell to one individual to reestablish it. The point here is that random actions can occur that throw a wrench into any prediction. Merely recieving the premonition could change it, as knowledge is often unwisely used. When fighting against an enemy that can read minds from a distance, by a means never before seen, how will an individual protect themself. This Leto creates a plan to defeat the combined arms of the SW universe. Then, a Nagai telepath (not a Jedi) from lightyears away taps into his mind and sees his plan. The plan can be countered. Merely predicting the future is not enough. Though a powerful weapon, it is not all encompassing. Even individual Jedi had remarkable ability to predict the future. However, it was often unclear. The Jedi who wrote the prophecy about Anakin Skywalker was certainly right-Anakin did bring balance to the Force (he threw Palpatine into the Death Star core, effectively removing his taint). This Jedi, however, did not know how Anakin would fulfill his destiny or, if he did, did not allow others to know because of the possibility that it may not come to pass. It is because of reasons such as this that the ability to predict the future is not quite so dangerous as it would seem.

 

species 8472 were effective against borg, very true.

Then again SW does not have weak shields, flimsy hulls, or lack of imagination

8472 has proved to be realtively docile. You don't mess with them and they don't mess with you. Since they are in another universe like the Q they do not enter into a Galaxy versus Galaxy debate.

That rule above saves you from things like the Vong which make Species 8472 look like fluffy bunnies.