Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.


Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
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  1. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member


    Multikinetic Neutronic Mine

    yeild 5 million isotons=25,700 gigatons,can also be used to assmilate utilizing a nanoprobe spread of 5 lightyears.

    fed tech

    class6 photon torp[fed issued and replicatable]=200 isotons=516 megatons, can be fired 1 a second or 10 unit vollies every 9seconds.

    romulan tech

    Quantum Singularity Drive-an artificial black hole used by romulons instead of M/AM reactors. could easily be devoloped into a gravity well .

    yeah,those wont take down a sw ship.

    Now, on to hyperdrives, a quote from the link in the Astrogation clearly states that hyperjumps can be preprogrammed for faster wont have that in the ST also talks about the relays .

    Hyperspace jump courses must be plotted to avoid passing through these regions, rather than any precisely determined positions. The older and more inaccurate the astrogation data, the larger the avoidance zone around a celestial obstacle. Because it takes hundreds or thousands of years for starlight to propagate useful distances, updating star charts requires an actual scouting visit to the systems in question. Hyperdrive travel is essentially straight-line constant-velocity motion. Linear travel requires that starships avoid the volumes of uncertainty around obstacle locations. For any region of space there will be a typical limiting distance beyond which any useful direction of travel becomes dangerously cluttered or blocked by potential hazards. Thus the quality of hyperspatial travel depends critically on how well and recently the local space has been surveyed.

    Even with the best data, a direct jump between distant points may not be possible, due to the presence of intermediate obstacles, such as the large interstellar clouds which occupy much of the space within the galactic disk. This places limits on the maximum jump range in any region. Straight-line travel may be limited to an absolute maximum of hundreds or thousands of light-years per jump, the typical optical viewing depth of the interstellar medium.

    During the Palpatine Era it was fashionable for starships to carry navicomputers, astrogation aids which greatly simplify the process of calculating a jump through hyperspace. Navicomputers contain at least a rudimentary database of navigational obstacles and destinations within the galaxy. Their primary value is that they enable ships to choose their own courses through interstellar space, rather than being restricted to common trade routes. For smugglers, rebels and other dubious individuals the independence provided by a navicomputer is extremely valuable. Of course the same is true of the Imperial warships and the bounty hunters who must pursue the renegades.

    Desperate for resources and dependent on hit-and-run tactics, the Rebel Alliance installed rudimentary hyperdrive systems into many of its starfighter designs. The jump capabilities of these ships were limited. In most cases there was no onboard navicomputer and the only possible destinations were a small handful of pre-calculated jumps loaded into the memory of an astromech droid mounted behind the pilot. Consumables including air and fuel are extremely limited for these vessels, so only short hyperspace hops are possible in a starfighter without resort to hibernation, Jedi trances or other unorthodox and uncomfortable measures.

    At the time of the Great Sith War hyperspace travellers relied on a network of hyperspace jump beacons stationed at the nodes of safe routes. These acted as milestones of the galaxy and contained computers to provide safe jump coordinates to departing vessels. In that age most vessels relied on these fixed facilities for jump calculations, rather than supporting the complex onboard navicomputers which were in fashion during the Palpatine Era. The computers aboard the jump beacons were able to compensate for local hazards and galactic drift in order to provide safe passage to a number of neighbouring beacons and systems. (For the sake of stability, most beacons are located in interstellar space, outside the gravitational wells of nearby star systems.) This system reduced travellers' independence of movement but improved jump reliability, provided that the beacon was in working condition. Only the specially-equipped scout ships of explorers were equipped with navicomputers and capable of jumping into unknown territory. At any given time almost one fifth of beacons might suffer from some malfunction, despite the continual repair efforts of the Republic Spacelane Bureau jump beacon patrols.
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  3. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    You are pulling numbers from thin air again iso mean 10^0 live with it.

    Did you not see the

    This page was constructed and is maintained by <Curtis Saxton.
    This page is neither affiliated with nor endorsed by Lucasfilm Ltd. Images included in or linked from this page are copyright Lucasfilm Ltd. and are used here under Fair Usage terms of copyright law.

    At the bottom of the page.?

    Even so it has been more than 25,000 years since the days of the hyperspace bouys. For 5000 credits you can get an good astromech that can do that and hundred other things. For 2000 credits you can get a navcomputer.

    By the way if you note those bouys mentioned were just to hand out jump courses. Kinda like buying a map. Since we are going by Canon they are not needed. The only race in the current timeline not to use hyperdrive is the yuzhan vong. And believe me you do not want them in this conversation.
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  5. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    it doesnt matter if the site isnt licensed,what matters is if the information is correct or is not licensed or accurate .

    accurate information about SW=canon

    if its not accurate,what about it is wrong?

    also an isoton is a fictional unit of measuring explosives.
    it is both yield and mass.

    1 isoton=2.58MT-5.14MT depending on the mass

    for ptorps 200isotons=540MT

    90 isotons of ultritium vaporizes everything within an 800km radius

    nuetronic mines are 5million isotons and have a 5 lightyear blast radius for nanites and can effect entire solar sytems
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2005
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  7. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Some of it is accurate but also refuted by movies and novelizations. Hence it is trumped. Your failure to understand what is and is not canon is abominable. Perhaps this is why you think Star Trek is so powerful. Although why you would think that is a mystery.

    Star Wars Canon: The movies, the Novelization, the radio dramas, and then the EU

    Star trek canon: Only the stuff Gene Roddenberry said is canon if you go harshly or the Movies and Shows only if you are lenient.

    BTW think for just a moment.

    If the blast was that powerful wouldn't it have vaporized the nanites? Then what use are they? None. So this is obviously not how the weapon works. Occam's Razor dictates it must be a very effiecent nanite spreader. 5 tons of TNT could do that without vaporizing the the nanites. Any more and you would risk damage.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2005
  8. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

    I want them in this conversation. I am so sick of Mars's stupidity. I honestly believe we should throw absolutely everything at them.
    Mars you f***ing moron, you talk about no one refuting your claims, you babble about our using non-canon material, you argue meaningless points, you make up decisions without the slightest knowledge of what you are talking about. I think that before you damage ST's position any more than you have, you should leave.
    You should notice Mars, that I said the Humans had hyperdrives and had been building huge fleets for 25,000 years, not that that is when the universe began. You are probably too ignorant to comprehend this meaning, but the fact is that there were numerous other species running the show before the humans achieved orbital space travel. The Duros had been traveling the spacelines for years already, and when humans got into space, there were already Baragwin weapons dealers there to sell to them. By the time the Republic was formed, the Quella had been gone for millenia. So, you have reached yet another moot point, which I was trying to explain earlier, had you been listening. But of course, you weren't.
    The thought that we can't communicate in Hyperspace is foolish. Ever heard of a Holonet Transciever? It uses its electronic connection to the Holonet, a hyperspace traveling communication network, to send and recieve messages through Hyperspace all across the galaxy, both in Hyperspace, real space, and terran recievers. So stop pushing bull, twit.
    You know, its funny, the Yuuzhan Vong were from a different galaxy, yet they were fully capable of a Blitzkrieg sweep through the center of the galaxy. They had no maps, no charts, no astrogation data, yet they brought the galaxy to its knees.

    Mars, I believe your foolishness knows no bounds, but let me put this final point into layman's terms, and you can have a layman explain it to you. The ability to engage enemies at faster than light (FTL means that, in case you didn't know) speeds does not matter when their planets cannot. The Centerpoint Station and Galaxy Gun could engage enemies from entirely different systems, and the Sun Crusher was indestructible, so it could hyperspace right through a star. Making blind jumps would be entirely safe. It could make a beeline for earth, wipe out the sun, and continue on a mad path of destruction. Meanwhile, as it is doing such, it is gaining astrogation data. Meaning, in turn, that all three Death Stars, the Tarkin Station, the Eclipse and Sovereign-class Star Destroyers, Darksaber, and the World Devastators could begin systematically wiping out all the planets that are left behind. If that weren't enough, the Yuuzhan Vong descend upon your galaxy as well, using mass grown Dovin Basals to destroy planets with physical impact from moons, asteroids, etc.
    Ooooohhh...Here's a thought. Equip all fleets with a Dovin Basal. It can be used to rip ships from FTL, since they still have mass, and they can be held at normal speeds to be destroyed. Dead Federation worlds. Dead Klingons, dead Romulans, dead Borg, dead Dominion, dead 8472 worlds. Not looking good for your fleets, is it? With no support from homeworlds, and no new construction of ships, as well as ships being forced from FTL to be engaged, it isn't pretty. And, since the shields of Star Wars (all shielded ships have dual shields, ray-shielding and particle-shielding) don't need frequencies, they can't be beamed through, removing your main advantage. Very nice victory for Star Wars, though it would have been better if we didn't have to destroy all the worlds. Then again, I'm sure even Trek has cowards. Surely some worlds would have surrendered. Excellent.
  9. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    I've also wondered how Warpdrive would react to the artifical gravity well created by Interdictors. I imagine it would not be too pleasant. Not to mention create mega distortions that would blind starfleet sensors.
  10. Fafnir665 You just got served. Registered Senior Member

    Wow, presenting non-canon information, and then drawing more ignorant conclusions from them. Come on, waiting for you to prove something still. All you've done is look at personal sites, and drawn ignorant conclusions from non-existent data. Try again please.
  11. Kron Maxwell's demon Registered Senior Member

    A sad thing about this debate is that mars13 has more than twice the number of posts that I have, yet has been here for half the time and spoken absolute ********. We're even beginning to devote entire posts to yelling at him.

    I'm using the ignore feature. It's amazing isn't it? I wonder why no one told us earlier.

    Dune has a deadly advantage in foldspace as it isn't disrupted by gravity wells. You can foldspace onto a planet and then out. (or foldspace a stone-burner into a deathstar core). I think the real war here is between SW and Dune. SW has industry and Dune has psychohistory (close enough to psychohistory anyway)...

    Incidentally, TW Scott, do you know Michael Wong?
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Acutally no, I do not. I have perused his sight and found it enlightening, but do not know him.

    Well Dune does have a comparable age and the foldspace drive. However in the rest of it they are lacking. They are millenia behind in firepower and communications.

    I do admit palcing a stoneburner inside the DeathStar is a brilliant tactic, but it requires the knowledge of what the interior looks like as well as the sacrifice of a navigator. You could destroy a few thousand ships at best then you are left with not FTL travel.

    Basically the whole thing will boil down to who gets in the first few blows. Psychohistory does not do so well against a Sith as each Sith has been radically different from the last. So this would be a real war of thinkers. Given Grand Admiral Thrawn, General Bel Isis, and few others versus the Bene Gisserete it would be an even match.
  13. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    your just mad you had no idea how hyperdrive worked until i posted that link.

    if its wrong then you should be able to tell us whats incorrect about it.

    sice you refuse to evaluate what is correct and what is not,your noncanon claims are idiotic at best.


    there are 4 types of canon,.lucas only recognizes g canon .lucasfilms considers everything but n canon canon as long as it does not contridict g canon .and this is consitant with all information i have found about sw.

    your ignorance of your own position is alarming.just saying ''na-uh'' without ANY evidence or supportive materials means your an idiot.

    are sw from fluidic space?no,then the borg can assmilate them

    are TL 550MT?no all evidence suggest they are less then 10KT

    are sw ships bigger?no my scale digrams proved that SD are DWARFED by borg cubes[only SSDs and deathstars are bigger then cubes]

    does st have 500mt torps?yes as clearly stated in voyager,type 6 torps have a 500MT yield which equals 200isotons

    can the enterprise E VAPORIZE the same amount of a borg cube
    as a SD in one shot with phasers?yes,my scale digrams prove that as well.

    can st races destroy planets with MUCH smaller ships?yes

    are computers a VERY new thing to sw?yes,navicomputers are new in the sw galaxy.

    do they rely on scouts and maps to navigate a galaxy?yes

    can they travel across an uncharted galaxy in minutes?no
    decades? definitly

    can trans warp go across an uncharted galaxy in minutes without using a TW hub?yes

    is accurate OR canon?no,but you sure act like they are biblical canon and you site them as example

    does sw have any attacks that are FTL?no,the fastest weapon is laser cannons and they travel at c

    does st have FTL attacks?yes its called warp straffing

    will they use it in battle?yes,thats why they use the tactic in battle minimum of 10% of the time and have a name for it

    can a stormy beat a borg in hand to hand combat?no,borg are 3x stronger then humanoids,stromies lose to ewoks[highest canon by the way]

    can 5 stormies beat a jedi?yes,they mopped the floor with the jedi in the last movie[funny how they didnt see that coming]

    do multikenetic mines destroy things AND spread nanites?yes thats what they do

    does st have ground vehicles?yes

    does st have HUGE portable shield generaters for battles?yes

    do they have personal shields?yes

    does sw?no

    does ST have instantanious travel ?yes

    does sw?no

    can they transport throu shields?yes, various transport methods can pass throu shields and regular shields can be modulated to pass throu shielding.

    can phasers vaporize a humanoid in one shot?yes

    does SF have personal transporters?yes

    does sw?no

    can st materialize any supply needed in seconds[except latinum,phaser focus crystals,and a few organic

    can SW?no

    if anything on here is incorrect,feel free to answer the questions and support your answers with EXAMPLES.

    no example= speculation=bullshit
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2005
  14. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Why should we feed example to a man who feeds none. Mars13 give it up you lost. the more you speak the more you prove that ST loses.
  15. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    wow no rebuttles or examples.

    if im wrong point out exactly what im wrong about dipshit.
  16. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    oh wait,you cant and wont.which means you LOSE.
    thats how a debate works.

    de·bat·ed , de·bat·ing , de·bates

    1. To consider something; deliberate.
    2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
    3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
    4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.

    if you have no opposing points then you lose,dipshit

    a point is an exapmle that proves your argument.

    no example= no point=lose
  17. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    So you admit you lose becuase your posts are pointless.

    You make claims without givng even flimsy evidence. You misquote sources. You lie outright about others. Finally you offend me. I gave you some credit and you spent that and put yourself deeper in debt than the US.
  18. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    i have cited NUMEROUS example,you have posted''na-uh''.

    one is considered a rebuttle one is childish pouting

    you have been doing the latter since i posted my scale diagrams and blew away your mental image of sw ship superiority.

    you have maybe 5 ships that are bigger then a cube,and there are millions of cubes,and trillions of drones.

    and since sw uses about 5 diffrent weapons ,the borg will be immune to ALL sw attacks after the first battle .
  19. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    post a rebuttle or cry somewhere else
  20. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    you have posted no quotes,no links,no technical anylisis.

    you wont point out what exactly is incorrect about hyperdrive.

    and you consider saying''na-uh'' as winning.

    are you twelve? you act like a child,you argue like a child,and you pout like a child.
  21. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Man the ignore button works great. One click and the garbage disappears.
  22. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    Then Cite Example Ass Hat!!!!!

    If I Did Any Of Those Thing Surely You Can Point Them Out!!!!

    Thats How A Debate Works!!!!!get It!!!!!
  23. mars13 give me liberty Registered Senior Member

    cowards,you ALWAYS RUN!!! you wont even answer simple questions or post EVIDENCE!!!

    worthless children,i wish some adults who understand how a debate works would get on here.

    ill take your daily retreat as proof of ST victory.

    if you run away every day after only typing ''nu-uh''then you OBVIOUSLY lose.

    your pathetic coward babies who run away.

    if your right, then youll need to post quotes from books or movies or anylisis

    you wont=you lose

    running from a debate means you lose,thats how it works.

    if someone attacks you and you RUN AWAY then you LOST that fight.

    but you take running away as victory,which provs your incapable of any civilized conversation.

    go have sex with your wookies cowards.
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