Star Wars vs Star Trek

Dude, you can't just make up ships and use them against us.

 

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Sure he can, but then we get to do the same.

As I already claimed the invulnerability super-power, the invincibility super-power, and the Q-power supply, it's trademarked to the Ent-X

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The thing about religion is that Dune wouldn't let it be left to each person. Imagine the Bene Gesserits getting hold of the Klingon religion. They would be easy to influence considering how primal their race is for being a space-faring species.

So, are you telling me that culture doesn't influence government and policy? :bugeye:

As to the replication.... Are you joking? The UFP wouldn't interfere in trade..... In addition, the chemical structure of melange could be too much of a workload to make it profitable to replicate. After all, there is only two ways to generate spice as it is.

Before you say that one can replicate anything... what about latinum? As far as I remember, that is something that can't be replicated or at least profitably.

 

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It CAN be replicated, but it's not allowed to be. The thing is, replicated items are not quite 100% as good as the real thing (eg, synthahol) but they're pretty close... Latinum is scrutinized pretty heavily before accepted as a currency, and it's only really used to trade outside the Federation and it's alliances (read, Ferengi)

ProtoMatter cannot readily be replicated, but it's easily able to be found in nebulae.

And trust me... Dune would fail. Their shields would be quickly rendered useless, and their weapons, even if they were able to fold space and bypass the warp field ( a HUGE if at best ) would likely damage a few rooms... we have seen hand phasers DETONATE and do minor damage to surfaces...

 

Who is Maxwell Xii, and where are these insane ships coming from? The number of turrets in his ships would mean that his ship might just tear itself apart when it takes off...simply because turrets are in and of themselves an interruption in structural integrity.

Further:

How does one construct shields (as opposed to armor) from a metal?


Just felt like commenting cause I was bored...

 

There are many things that they can't replicate - basically any time in any of the shows when it would make things too easy for the crew if they could just replicate something, they come up with a technobabble explanation for why that particular thing can't be replicated.

But obviously there are limits to what they can replicate, otherwise they would just build big replicator stations that allowed them to create entire starships (or whatever) on demand.

They never say it in the show so far as I can remember, but in some of the books they state that the replicators can't turn one element into another - so you could still use exotic metals (or whatever) as money if they were made of rare elements.

 

Shipboard replicators are limited due to the materials they have on hand to work with and the physical limits of reality - the replicators turn matter from one form to another, they don't pull matter out of nothingness, and starships have a finite amount of matter they can use - the bussard collects can probably help offset this by collecting random "space trash" to be used by the replicators. However, if you were on a large, Class M planet, or a Class D metallic planet, you would be able to replicate, via an "industrial" replicator, much larger, more complex parts.

 

Hokay... so...

1. Melange has a chemical structure that is very hard to replicate. It took centuries for the Tleilaxu to succeed. It is something that needs to be 100% to be effective.

2. It would take quite a bit of industry and resources to meet the demand of its own people as well as the multi-galactic Dune universe.

3. You still haven't countered the cultural influence that the Dune universe would have.

4. I contend that Dune would use diplomatic warfare rather than open warfare. In such conditions the guiding principals of the UFP would work against themselves.

5. Open warfare wouldn't occur unless the UFP initiated it or the Romulans or the Klingons. I doubt it would because the Dune universe has too much to offer (gholas, spice, space-fold tech, no-fields, etc.).

6. The open warfare debate is still unresolved. ST can't defend every planet simultaneously and the instantaneous travel of Dune allows for strategic attacks to take control of planets where openings exist. The Dune shielding can be overwhelmed but it takes a specific tactics to do so which are time consuming and the sheer numbers of Dune ships would be overwhelming. That's if the Dune ships use shielding since the 'modern' ships use armor and no-fields. In addition, it is still uncertain whether or not ST can penetrate the no-field or even track it.

7. Obliterators can be used on fleets as mentioned in Chapterhouse towards the end. (the bene gesserits were afraid that the honored matres may use them in such a way.) If so, these are contending weapons in the firepower race that everyone is so caught up in.

 

The problem is, the sheer weapons capacities of Dune aren't really that impressive. How long do you think it would take for the Federation and her allies to counter the space-fold weapons idea? That's assuming a warp field wouldn't already counter it. Not to mention that, and really, why would the Federation want Spice, gholas, or space fold? Maybe the current federation, but that would be considered a temporal incursion by the future federation standards. If the future federations CURRENT EXISTANCE is in danger, they will intervene. This means if Dune's diplomacy is really working to route the Federation, the Future Feds, which are immune to the timeline changes, would come back and kick some ass.

As for no fields - how exactly do they work? If they just absorb power, meh... they can be overloaded. Armor can easily be defeated... even no fields maybe via transphasic torpedoes (remember, they aren't in our reality until they detonate inside the ship)

And what are obliterators? remember, Trek weaponry isn't about sheer energetic output - it's about using their energy output to it's most effective ability to cause as much damage for as little power as possible.

 

The properties of latinum (and dilithium I believe) defy the replication technology. I do not recall any other physical item in Star Trek that was "impossible" to replicate as opposed to "not possible at the time"...ie some circumstance in the story plot preventing the use of replicators..to make the story engaging.

Of course, replicators cannot cause energy to simply appear, so whole phasers can be replicated, with a dead power source; or in the case of a "super-sized replicator" a starship could arguably be replicated but with a useless warp core.

 

Not really Ent-D - they can generate "power" (good example - hot tea... heat is a form of energy) just I don't believe they let the replicators make phasers for obvious reasons...

 

Incorrect. We have never seen this and it has never even been said. Also in one episode where the TOS Enterprise was attempting to divert an asteroid. The Enterprise burned out it's entire warp drive making a 90km section fo the asteroid glow brightly for a minute and half. So obviously you are completely incorrect.

And we know this becuase we have seen it? no, we have seen nothing of the like. In fact we have seen that it takes many seconds to drill small holes in the thinnest part of a planets crust even when the phasers are calibrated to produce a highly focused high powered beam.

Actually after Voyager we know that Star Trek vessels recycle their antimatter waste to provide power for life support and such. Given this I'll bet i know where the biological waste goes. And I am never eating/drinking replicatied anything if ever aboard a Star Trek vessel

 

No, he was stating that the idea that the TOS Enterprise could melt the crust of a planet is completely disproved by a much later and more modern fleet attempting such a feat and failing. unless you think 30+ romulan and cardassian vessels are somehow inferior to the TOS Enterprise.

Actually given all the information it is more than Perhaps

Actually it was Harry Kimm making a joke about an 83 isoton warhead. But again we know this is a jest becuase of "The Die is Cast". Cardassian Ionic torpedoes are the equivalent of Federation Photon Torpedoes and Romulan Plasma Torpedoes are actually superior, but even thrirty ships firing dozens of warhead each didn't even slag 30% of a small planets crust.

Explain why it would not. All that was needed was a 100 megaton explosion. The Seismic charge in AOTC was well above that threshold.

No, just realistic ones.

Which are easily detected and may not be as fast on the outside as they are on the inside. If they really only took minutes to transverse 20% of the galaxy why did the federation have a intercept fleet ready when the Voyager exited the conduit in Endgame? We are missing some crucial detail here.

From real physics.

Borg forcefeilds have NEVER worked against a projectile or physical weapon on screen. Hell the best weapon to handle the borg would be a shotgun.

How would you make that argument and make it stick? The Aing-Tii perform feats even the Q seem incapable of and can teach non force sensitives how to use force powers. Obviously they are a force to be feared.

We have seen three Star Trek vessels pull anything fancier than move and shoot. The Defiant, the Voyager, and Stargazer. That's it and even one of those was just highspeed move and shoot. And we have seen an ISD yaw, twice in ESB.

Actually when you have that level of firepower and protection, as well as screening fighters you go back to the 16th-19th century naval tactics. Of course you could also use picket lines, and mass formations which SW does use as well. Only when you are in a vulnerable ship do you need to act like a dogfighting plane.

Odd thing, no evidence of such a book title seems to exist.

 

Incorrect. I have stated plainly that Tricolbalt devices have not been successfully used against shielded targets. In fact two such devices were used in Voyager against a station with a heavily depleted and only barely brought the stations shields down.

So we know Tricolbalt devices are relatively useless versus sheilds from your own canon.

 

I cant recall any examples of them replicating complex machinery/devices/whatever. It's always just simple things like food, clothing, simple works of art, etc. The fact that there are weapons merchants in the ST universe seems to indicate that you can't simply replicatre a phasor, charge it up, and go shoot things. But if there are any examples of a phasor/tricorder/whatever being replicated that I'm not aware of, do let me know...

 

Oh goddamnit... thought we were rid of your bullshit... go away and DON'T COME BACK. Your own allies think you're nuts

 

Replicators can replicate anything (within reason) they are programmed to replicate. Remember - the Romulans replicated a Federation phaser rifle... however, it wasn't exact and was able to be detected as a replication.

 

BTW - If anyone remembers the Episode that was in... Geordi was looking at a Phaser Rifle and it turned out to be a Romulan replication *shrugs*

 

What do you mean BARELY? It obliterated the entire fucking Caretaker array! As in, poof!

 

I don't think they ever said that it was a "replicated" rifle, merely that it was a Romulan-made copy of a federation rifle. And they detected it as a fake by noticing that it had a Romulan "phase discharge crystal" or something similar - it actually incorporated Romulan parts.