Star Wars vs Star Trek

Actually SunCcrusher and Centerpoint are during the republic as is the galaxy gun.

 

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How is this relevent? I was talking about hand-phaser firepower.

Besides, Voyager crossed the galaxy in under aprox. 5 mins via the transwarp network. We're only a few minutes behind you.

Really?

Uh, I know that the the republic had swamp troopers.

We're talking about the Empire!

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It's EU, suck it up.



Not even close.[/QUOTE]

You don't cite your information on usable resourses. You're not entirely like TW, but similar.

 

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Ad hominem and dodging the facts get you nowhere B

 

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Funny, are you tired becuase you have yet to suceed?

 

Have you responded to my last post? Are you going to tell me that Frank Herbert didn't write Dune Messiah or Heretics or Chapterhouse? Your arguments are attacking my sources but your attacks don't hold up... so now what?

 

"Kittamaru and Antaran, I'm still waiting for a response.... I'm getting tired of tearing apart Scott."

i'm sorry for the delay. i've been away for the 1st of may holliday. you know real life obligations and stuff

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i'll review the last few pages today.

 

to TWS:
6".As for the resistance to Phasers. If it is collapsed matter there is absolutely no atomic or molecular bonds to tear apart. If it is just a heavy, energy resistant metal it is likely just immune to nadion bombardment as it simply takes far too much energy to break apart."
i decided to answer point 6 first, since it shows TWS is NOT an idiot as sujested by his termal conductivity and dopler effect comments, or the point 1 of this reply. so this lives me with only one alternative. he lies. clearly and wilfully whenever it suits him and hopes he can get away with it by throwing a large number of lies over a short period of time or trying to induce an emotional responce by what is a standard language around here (your theory is ratarded stuff). so if anyone reads this, i repeat TWS is compleately sane, and far from ignorant. he just does what every good debater does, twists the claims, speculates when there are facts and lies when he can aford.

1."What, you have a thermometer that measures heat from a visual medium? I call bullshit there. Wet wood is very hard to light, I know becuase i lived with a wood fiurnace for many years".
and oh pray tell, what does wet wood has to do with nuclear or molecular disruption? or kinetic impact. it's not like they are trying to burn it with matches. they use weapons that suposedly blast chunks of concrete walls or worse. if what you say is true, then wet tree bark is a perfect defence from heavy blasters!!!! as for the catapult it's there in RoTJ. a special efffect flare goes poof and the catapult is undamaged, 0 ewoks killed.
2."However this does not let ST off any hooks as at least Blasters leave scorch marks, Phasers don;t even manage that 99.9% of the time."
here it is again. blasters live marks, but not trees right? so trees are stronger then durasteel walls.

3."We see them blow gaping molten hot holes in Stormtrooper armor and in ANH see Han's handgun blow massive chunks of ferrocrete out of a wall designed to resist the backblast of plasma engines."
i'm still waiting for that screen cap. i'm to laisy to watch ANH right now.
4."Actually the there is no weakness in a diamond crystal structure as the diamond is one massive molecule."
stop playing ignorant!!! you know ass well as i do, that diamond is textbook examply for atomic crystaline structure as dry ice (CO2) is for molecular!!!
5."Some culture had to deal with what ST refers to as Neutronium and since it acts no different than a super heavy metal it was likely mined especially if they built with it."
speculation when facts are present: TNG Evolution clearly states where neutronium is found in ST. so the only way to utilise is to stabilise this neutronium. no mining please.
7."Well, they would agree with you especially since the 93 crash was in a mantle plate plate fold mountain that was actually rock"
i apoligise, i was refering to the aircrash that hapened in my country. i was wrong to presume you'd be familiar with it. the liner crashed on the near by hills, just several km after take off. no survivors

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8."Actually, becuase when ever we see something on Star trek that is phased it still is affected by gravity."
are you refering to Jordey and Ro?

 

to Sardonic
" I've been considering a formidable weapon that could be used by Dune. We have the capability to fold-jump... and we have stoneburners and obliterators. With the advent of ixian navigation machines it is completely possible for the Dune universe to use these in combination for a weapon akin to transphasic torpedoes."

this weapon could actually work. i guess the only reason not to be used in pre-Leto II times would be because of navigators having to be prsent to guide the folding. but if machines could do it, and these devices are miniaturised enough, then a weapon can be constrructed. have they done it in the lateer books?

"C. I seriously doubt that the SW universe could detect null-space and so it wouldn't matter. I mean, sensors couldn't even detect the millenium attached to the star destroyer's hull"

they might not be able to detect the ship, but active interdictors could be present on many systems and in every fleet.

 

Actually a Star Wars vessel would have an easier time detecting No-ships than ST would St is routinely fooled by ships hiding in magnetic poles. SW sensors can detect the gravity of a star clear across the galaxy and differentiate it from other stars.

 

to Skywalker
"Here is a better reason. They hate EU because it is too good for them to handle."

i can't vouch for enyone else, i personaly dislike EU, ST and SW novelizations and comics for 1 simple reason. i hate milk-cows, if you know what i mean. i tryed rreading novelisations once, and was nearly insnared by the suposed aditional information they provide. but i hate inconsistancies, and they apear to be aboundand with those. just 1 example:
STTMP novelisation, written by Gene Roddenberry humself, states that warp drive propels the ship trough diferent levels of hyperspace. a clear contradiction from what we see during 7 years of TNG or 10 ST movies. but when i was 13 i didn't matter. i was just a fan boy. largely ignorant on the topic (i haven't watched all of ST back then).
so for the same reason i hate Nemesis (Picard was not bold at the academy) and other movies.

but, just because i hate them, it does not mean they should not be analised. i don't say EU is not canon. it's just not movie canon. even the oficial SW site distinguishes movies from EU, and for a reason. to prevent confusion and contradiction (since EU is written by multiple writers). so when i discuss ST vs SW, i stick with what is put on screen. if they wanna make more money, let them make more movies, i won't buy their bad fiction. Herbert,Simmons and Asimov are far better read then ST and SW stuff

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So you completely ignore the possibility that I made a mistake (which I admitted) with the doppler thing and on the the process of work heating I actually do know what i am speaking of.

I was speaking of why you did not see trees ignited. We see from several scenes that trees are indeed heavily damged by the blaster shots. You also see a scene where a near miss tossed two Ewoks around and killed one of them It's also very clear many ewoks lost their life in this struggle.

Or perhaps the darker bark does not show off the scorch marks as much? Geez, nothing like ignoring the obvious.

BTW have we seen a phaser even so much as scorch a lyrca uniform?

Actually I provided the screen caps a few pages back. If you are that lazy I guess you'll just have to admit you're wrong.

Look who is being ignorant. Diamond is where the same forces that make metamorphic rocks causes a mass of carbo to bond in such a way that they form a sort of 3D lattice. Each diamond is it's own moelcule in effect. Impurities and such denote the color and clarity of the diamond. So in effect cutting a diamond is just sheering some electron bonds. Which is why despite their hardness a cutter has to be very, very precise about how they hit the stone.

However, there is no doubt that some cultures in Star Trek had a way of stabilizing Nuetronium on a permanent basis. Since it is used exactly the same way in both universe, it is not unthinkable that SW has this method since it is mentioned. Also Nuetronium is only mined on one moon and oddly no other mines mentioned despite the need for them. This moon also has all the other componenets for Dura Armor in the proper proportions. So it might be the crashsite of a truly ancient and massive station.

8."Actually, becuase when ever we see something on Star trek that is phased it still is affected by gravity."
are you refering to Jordey and Ro?[/QUOTE]

I am referring to them, the romulan, that one species that was phased and they had a portal to 19th century earth. in fact in every incidence gravity still affected the creature or item.

 

Then why are cloaking devices able to fool SW ship's sensors? If sensors can detect the gravity cloaked ships have then why are there cloaking devices in SW?

 

No, they haven't been used. However, the reason could be that you can't foldspace into an active holtzman field generator. Or that reliance on computers would be too close to using "thinking machines". either way, these obstacles don't exist if it is a war against another universe.

Hell, if you have a strong enough prescient to set the coordinates these weapons could be launched from Dune homeworlds. A sort of ICBM of stellar proportions. This would allow a cold war to form which would lend to Dune's superior espionage skills slowly picking away at the other universe.

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is an interdictor?
EDIT: nevermind, my friend told me... but detection of movement doesn't determine what that movement is. These wouldn't help SW know that there was a ship there... all they would know is that 'something' is there.

 

Not this crap again...

Scott, give it a rest - the Ent-E can track you by residual subspace distortions left by the gravity well your SHIP presents via it's own mass. Just because the ENt-D had problems doesn't mean the Ent-E has em anymore... nor most of their current ships!

 

Sardonic, please let me know what you wanted me to counter- I lost your posts in Jedi and TW's crap

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I declare SW officially dead... lets find out how ST vs Dune would go... this Fold Jump thing sounds... interesting... I almost think it's along the lines of a chroniton jump used in Voyager... would that mean temporal shielding would protect the ship against such an attack? Or doesn't fold-jumping effect the transfer of time?

 

it is the nature of interdiction that is at stake here. they use mass shadows do disrupt any transdimensional travel. so they ither prevent the null-ships from entering normal space (or fyiring anything that hasss to eventualy enter) or they force them to "re-materialise", depending on the properties of null-space transition, which nature is still unclear to me.

 

1. i have no doubt you made a mistake. what i am suspicious of is wether it was deliberate or not.

2.what we see consistantly in RoTJ is a lot of pyrothechics in and no damage to th trees in most sceens and in one particular scene no pyrothechics at all, but extensive damage to the thinner trees. that is why i think AT-STs have two types of ammo: AP and HE (incidiery).

3.if they blast a chunk of a concrete or durasteel wall, tree bark should pose no problems.

4. we have seen them desintegrate humanoids and household objects, drill holes in rock and even some seismic activity, but seldom or never any scortches. as we agreed their action is not primary thermal, although they can obviously raise temperature in objects when used on some fyiring modes.

5.i looked up the last 4 pages and did not see them. can you point me to their pages or at least the date or ongoing discusssion?

6.which is their weakness. you just confirmed what i said.

7.stabised yes, mined specificaly not. as for the posibilty that neutronium on that moon isss derilict, before it becomes a fact, some evidence needs to be presented. even then i don't think they would find it in taht form as presented.

8. that is an interesting issue yes. i know little of the method artificial gravity is being generated on board starships, but if it involves linear gravity emissions it should be possible to tractor a phased object. you still need a lock though. now i know ST hass problems with ionizing radiation (both long range and short range issues depending on the purpose and preciseness of their scans) but when trans dimensional phenomena is concined the scan quite well, sometimes in the range og lys. but eeven they have truble detecting phased object. can SW scan for such activites?

i think i have the answer to this question too, but stil want to hear yours first.

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I had contended that the time necessary to weaken each ship to get a kill shot would be ineffectual due to the massive amounts of ships the Dune universe could supply. During the time of Leto II his empire alone was multi-galactic and then afterwards, in the scattering, civilization had spread out exponentially beyond that.

The other point I made was about a feasible weapon that Dune could create using tech that they have had for thousands of years. Making something akin to a transphasic torp by combining stoneburner, holtzman engines and ixian nav device.

No the holtzman engines don't effect the transfer of time, they basically fold space so that the two points connect and the ship's holtzman field acts as the threshold between the two. Think of Event Horizon except the ship doesn't go through a tear or wormhole, the ship itself acts as the wormhole.

As to the SW comment, I have received no contentions beyond attack on my sources from that side of the fence (granted that there were initial arguments that I have refuted which resulted in just attacking my sources instead)... so, Dune stands mightier than SW, at least until I get some better arguments thrown at me:itold:

 

to TWS:
ignore the point 8. i just did some checking, my theory for countering interphased cloaks is not likely to work.

to Kitt:
space fold is practicly the same as hyperdrive in "Foundation" by Asimov, if you read that book. or co-axial warp in ST. it acheaves instant travel, probably by generating strong enough space-time curve so the destination and the point of origin become one and the same for a short interval.

to Sardonic:
i browsed the dune-wiki in search for data on no-ships. two things cought my eye.
1. they aree not stated to be warships as such, but could be used. it states monitors as warships.
2. it apears that no-ships are actually visible to the naked eye when on stand by.

 

But we're not only talking about the EU.
The truth is the EU is canon but it's not the same comparable canon to G-canon the highest and absolute level in Lucasfilm. The EU is two levels down.

I mean it's okay to use them together. That's what they were meant for, to establish their place in relation to the Films but the purpose is obviously to distance them from the films.

In other words its okay to include them or exclude them as long as their relative place is understood. I think on the whole they should be included. They give insight but as far as certain effects being compared against the Films...I think the Films always take precedent. Even if it isn't a direct contradiction the Films, the top level of canon should be considered over all else sacrosanct.